Betsy's 1.6na to 1.9na diesel conversion thread

[rotaecho]

Okay, after having Betsy for about two years and loading her up more and more, it's apparent the 1.6na isn't holding up unless I want to go 45mph everywhere and 30mph up hills :/

After reading a ton of lists on TheSamba, Yahoo, vwdiesel.net, and others, two things ring out from all lists:

If you do a conversion, it's best to do it yourself, but if you must out-source it then find someone totally reliable to do the conversion for you.

Second, that you need to be comfortable supporting the decision or obtaining support for the conversion with a mechanic somewhere.

For this reason, I'm choosing the 1.9na conversion path. I have better familiarity supporting this engine, so stick with what you know best even if it's not much

I'm NOT a mechanic (IT/UNIX engineer), but I like getting my hands dirty and not afraid to work on something unfamiliar. I've done a lot so far, but I think taking on a 1.9na conversion myself is a bit beyond me without a ton of down-time. I think it would physically be too much with my disability alone as well.

I have a lead on a few shops in San Diego, CA. I would also be interested in anyone willing to do a conversion and have me help assist to better learn the innards better. Totally willing to pay/barter/etc in any way I can. I'm looking at next year for doing the conversion. Before then I'm sourcing some last parts, and getting some preliminary upgrades done before (radiator for example).

Along with the 1.9na conversion, I plan to do a DK transmission with a higher 3rd (1.14) and higher 4th (0.77) which I think will work well with the conversion. I have the DK sourced, just need to finalize the gearing for it.

In time, I plan to swap my 14" tires with 15" tires and a 1.5" lift kit and springs to put in a larger LP tank. But the 14" are really good on thread so waiting on that.

By end of the year, I'm upgrading the radiator before starting on the engine project for 2015. Maybe find a better exhaust for the 1.9 too.

Anyone willing to throw some 1.9na conversion pointers drop a note! I know they are hidden in the threads, but I didn't see any in-depth 1.9na conversion threads to collect the information. Plenty of TD & TDI information, but for a N/A noobie learning, not too much.

Also anyone interested in the apprentice/assistant approach with the conversion next year drop me a note too (=

Thanks!
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-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[srmpf]

i wouldn't say I'm a mechanic either but did the swap from a 1.6na to a 1.9 TD last year and it was easy enough. prepare yourself, read a lot of posts and take your time doing the upgrade.

if you haven't already, sign up for the yahoo vanagon diesel group. they have a couple of how to documents in their file section. that helped me a lot.

out with the 1.6:

in with the 1.9:

[rotaecho]

I totally missed this! I'm a member, but never went into the files section. I just found the 1.9NA_install-2.txt file. This should help with what remaining sourced parts I need to grab!

[crazyvwvanman]

That proposed gearing is too tall for that motor. Just run the stock DK gearing.

Mark

[rotaecho]

Thanks for clarifying that Mark! That makes things a bit cheaper too

[Gnarlodious]

Instead of upgrading two gears, you may prefer to upgrade your R&P instead and it will be cheaper. The improved torque of the 1.9 will handle the spread of all 4 gears nicely. After some driving you may then get an idea what size tires would be ideal.

If your Vanagon has the updated radiator from 1983½ then you are OK. The early radiator may not be up to capacity.

One thing you can do to improve the 1.9 is to upgrade the intake system and air filter. The AAZ manifold gives better breathing but needs longer bolts. You are going to find the original canister filter is a tight squeeze with the bigger 1.9 engine and makes maintenence more work.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[rotaecho]

Gnarlodious,

What would a good R&P upgrade be with the 1.9na? Do you have any recommendations?

I haven't inspected the radiator yet that's Nov-Dec project It *may* be upgraded to a newer type, but I seriously doubt it. I've been diving into radiator upgrade threads. Per Mark (CrazyVanMan)'s recommendation, if it's not upgraded to a newer radiator, I will be doing that instead of rebuilding the 82' since it's out of production.

For the intake you're using an AAZ (TD) manifold on a 1.9na engine? I just want to make sure I read that right.

[?Waldo?]

Keep the DK gearing as is with the 1.9na or shorten it. Do not make it taller.

[rotaecho]

And keeping the R&P the same or should a change happen there?

Thanks everyone, these tid-bits are truly golden.

[?Waldo?]

With the 1.9na, the 4.57 is a bit tall. I'd probably prefer 4.8 but I wouldn't pay for the change if I had a DK with a good r+p.

[rotaecho]

Libby,

Thanks for the opinion there. Balancing the wiser use of money is always an interesting task with Betsy haha.

The DK I'm getting in mid Oct is a rebuilt transmission for around $750.00+shipping, so knocking off the extra costs for the 3rd & 4th for $400 a pop, and whatever R&P modification costs will make a huge savings difference if a stock DK is the way to go.

[MarkWard]

I ran the original stock diesel radiator for a couple years with my conversion with no heat problems. I replaced the radiator with the later one because I was adding AC and the later radiator fan etc was a better solution. I expected to see lower temps with the new radiator. Temps were exactly identical to the original. The TDI might be more heat efficient than the 1.9 NA though.

The good reason to upgrade the radiator is that the original diesel radiator is NLA. If you have good tanks, they can be recored, but hard to find real radiator shops anymore. As well the original diesel radiator had a metal return pipe that ran down the side that is also NLA. The newer radiator has the return molded into the tank.

I vote for doing it yourself. Safety first.
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[rotaecho]

I planned on doing this modification myself. It looked doable.

[rotaecho]

A friend of mine and another suggested maybe changing the 4th to 0.82 for a slightly better top speed if I'm having a DK rebuilt.

Anyone care to throw an opinion on this? Would that make much a difference with a 1.9na for highway cruising?
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[crazyvwvanman]

The DK is already slightly tall for a 1.9NA. Adding a .82 will make it worse, not better IMHO.

Mark

[?Waldo?]

I agree with Mark on this. The DK is already a little taller than I would want with a 1.9na. The rpms at cruise is not the only consideration. You need to produce enough power to propel the van against the rolling resistance and increasingly significant wind resistance of your cruising speed. The 1.9na does not produce enough power to effectively pull a taller 4th. Even with an AAZ I wouldn't make the gearing taller than the stock DK unless there were some significant performance mods done. Without the turbo there's no way.

[rotaecho]

Alrighty, enough on the DK, that's staying stock.

Thanks for answer my questions Mark & Libby regarding the re-gearing or not.

Now to move onto the little things like a longer oil-dipstick and tube; least I've read I need to source an 83 diesel's.

Onward!
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[srmpf]

[Gnarlodious]

I took my van into the dynamometer last week preparing for a transmission regearing and this is what it said:

This is for a factory new 1Y engine with 11,200 miles on it, 1.9NA diesel running at high elevation. All parts are from a 1.6NA, meaning intake, exhaust and pump. The engine likes to run at 2,900RPM, but that is not its highest power output, it just feels great there. You may get some idea from this curve how to gear your DK transmission. Mine feels like it is straining above 3500RPM even though it is hitting maximum power up there.

I get the feeling that the ideal cruising RPM is where you have the most reserve HP hitting a hill. You need to be careful overgearing so that you don’t run out of power on a mild long upgrade (or headwind) and always need to downshift. If your van is a Westy or normally loaded you need to figure that extra weight in.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[MarkWard]

That is not much more power than a 1.6. From memory the 1.6 was rated for 53 hp at the crank. Did they give you a torque line as well? Thank you for sharing.
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