1500 sp with remote oil cooler

[Ghia Nut]

Hello, was thinking about this on the way to work.

I have a '59 with a 1500sp industrial engine that came with it as the 36hp is long gone... sadly.

I will be putting a restored rajay turbo with 34pict3 setup from the 70's paired with a 010 running cb black box setup.

I have thought about standoffs, dont really like that idea as it looks not stock.
Dont like the idea or the cost to add vents to the original 59 decklid
Dont like the idea of having to track down all the parts to convert to a doughouse fan shroud.

Is it possible to do a remote setrab oil cooler with thermostat and still provide adequate cooling for the turbo 1500 sp while using the stock non dog house fan shroud? Input would be appreciated, even if you think thats a horrible idea.
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'59 typ1 rajay turbo
'72 Ghia rajay 1641 dual 36DRLAs, 1 3/8" SS merged header and fat boy
78" GL Vert with ej22t swap
This will likely change tomorrow to something else.

[tb03830]

I have been doing research on this myself and see no reason it will not work. I have the same set up except it is a 1600cc SP. Here is the Forum I started and got some good info.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607397&highlight=oil+cooler
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"Sic Vic Pacem, Para bellum - Pray for peace, prepare for war."

1964 Convertible Bug - 1600cc SP engine with a stock H30/31 Carb and SVDA Distributor - Swing Arm Highway Flyer Tranny, Gene Berg's Temperature Dipstick, 2.5" drop spindles, 2" narrowed adjustable front end. Chromed OEM fan tower.

[Ghia Nut]

Are using dog house or no dog house fan shroud?
_________________
'59 typ1 rajay turbo
'72 Ghia rajay 1641 dual 36DRLAs, 1 3/8" SS merged header and fat boy
78" GL Vert with ej22t swap
This will likely change tomorrow to something else.

[tb03830]

I am use a non doghouse style. I will jave to alter the tin for the lines though.
_________________
"Sic Vic Pacem, Para bellum - Pray for peace, prepare for war."

1964 Convertible Bug - 1600cc SP engine with a stock H30/31 Carb and SVDA Distributor - Swing Arm Highway Flyer Tranny, Gene Berg's Temperature Dipstick, 2.5" drop spindles, 2" narrowed adjustable front end. Chromed OEM fan tower.

[bluebus86]

remember that that 1500 motor draws a lot more air with the turbo even more so than the stock 36 HP motor. you may still find benefit from louvers or propping open the deck lid, I prop mine from the bottom.

the issue is not only the bigger fan needing more air, but also the engine using more air, plus you will be adding heat tot he engine bay is the turbo/exhaust pipe are run into the engine bay.

on my car (non-turbo) the problem was I was running rich at high speeds as the engine was choked down by the bigger fan, I only added a stock 1600 DP dog house motor to my 61 and needed to prop the deck lid.

for an external cooler to work well, you need ram air of ducted fans to make them work well.

If you remove the stock non-dog house cooler you will upset the air flow in the tins, likely over cooling the driver side head. If you leave the stock cooler in there, you will have hot air on the driver side heads, not too optimal for a hot rodded motor with turbo.

When it is all said and done, you will be much better off with a dog house system , the non-dog house system was NOT good enough for a stock 1600 motor, now you have a 1500 with Turbo, that will liely need even MORE cooling than a stock 1600. VW went to the dog house for good reason as displacement (and heat) increased. The non-dog house system even was a problem with the old 1200 motors as it always caused one side to run hotter than the other.

I highly recommend you re-consider a Dog house system. it was the best that VW made, and with a hot rodded motor (even a 1500) you really need the best. It is not just about oil cooling, it is also about even and cool air over the heads and a non-dog house is highly deficient in this regard.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[tb03830]

I have to agree with Bluebus86. My 1300cc bored out to 1600cc and with a non doghouse cooler is over heating and that is why I want a external oil cooler.

Bluebus86 can you talk to me more about what it will take to convert a nondoghouse cooler to a doghouse cooler. Mine is a SP and I wonder if there is more to my conversion other than the tin and the cooler. Will a doghouse cooler fit on my converted 1300cc block?

Can you still use the origional dog house cooler if you have an external cooler? Maybe mounted at a different point????
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"Sic Vic Pacem, Para bellum - Pray for peace, prepare for war."

1964 Convertible Bug - 1600cc SP engine with a stock H30/31 Carb and SVDA Distributor - Swing Arm Highway Flyer Tranny, Gene Berg's Temperature Dipstick, 2.5" drop spindles, 2" narrowed adjustable front end. Chromed OEM fan tower.

[Aussiebug]

To convert to a doghouse fan setup is quite straightforward.

You need a complete doghouse shroud and fan (it's wider than the non-doghouse 1300/1500/1600sp fan), a standoff mount for the oil cooler, the doghouse cooler itself, stepped seals for the oil galleries in the case - they will be the smaller 8mm size and the standoff mount will have the larger 10mm oil galleries, a front breastplate with the rectangular hole for the oil cooler exit air, and the oil cooler ducting pieces, including the "hoover bit" which seals the bottom area of the new oil cooler.

There are two styles of upper cylinder tinware - one for the sp engine and one for the tp engine. Either will fit under the doghouse shroud, so you match that piece to the sp/tp heads you have.

You WILL run short of cooling air if you have a doghouse fan under a solid engine lid. It will be most noticeable above about 50mph. Fixes for that include vented engine lids from a cabrio of a similar year, cutting slots into the existing engine lid or grafting sections of slots in from another source (the front air grill off a kombi/bus looks OK), cutting a rectangular hole slightly smaller than the licence plate and then the licence plate on standoff bolts about an inch long, using standoff hinges, or cutting slots in the sides of the engine bay - into the rear wheel arch area. Sometimes putting a cut tennis ball over the catch to crack the engine lid open is enough (and easy to remove).

Ghia nut,

One thing you need to think of is the case itself. Most 1500 cases were made from an inferior alloy (VW were experimenting with an alloy to shed heat better) which gets brittle with age. These are H1 and H0 engine numbers. If the case is in good condition and does not need machining, it's OK to use as a stock 1500 or 1600, but it's not a good base for a high power engine - you could spend big dollars on it and end up with a cracked case or pulled head studs after a very short time.

MUCH better to start with an AS21 or AS41 case - this is cast into the sides of the case, and indicates alloys with higher aluminium content, so the metal stays malleable and so is much better for machining.
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

[Cusser]

Nice post just above.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[HRVW]

Nice talk about a so so better cooling with a 1500cc engine original or doggy style. (there are some who believe doing it doggy style is better)

You are talking either a 77.5 (1200) or 83mm (1500) or 85.5 (1600)

With the debate on the cooling working or not using the early oil cooler or going to the later dog style supposedly better I have news for you........


The early oil cooler does work just FINE in a 66 bug 1776cc TURBO with the oil temp barely above 180 degrees and yes, I do have a stand off deck lid BUT and I say BUT that is standing in traffic for 1-2 hrs when I cross the border into SD.

On a hot day it will climb a bit but will drip drastically with 1 mile on the fwy.

Maybe my engine is the exception but as a former engine builder of 28 yrs I do know my fine points and speak with PERSONAL experience.

If you want a realy COOL running engine try installing a tranny cooler behind the front axle using oil field hose and watch out for speed bumps or parking lot cement barriers and the engine will love you.

I did that with a 1776 TURBO in a 70 bug back in 1978 and the temp guage never would move as it ran cool even under 15lbs of boost.

[ThingBeast]

I am running a 2007 cc engine with dual Gene Berg carbs in my 61 Bug. I have add an external oil cooler and full flow oil filter to mine. My deck lid doesn't have any louvers but I did add the AirKewld deck lid stand off at the bottom of the deck lid instead of the top. I too didn't like the top of the deck lid having the standoffs as they tend to let in dirt and water into the top of the engine and drop water right onto the carbs. I also added an oil temp gauge to my interior as I wanted to see what's going on with the engine. My bug runs at 175 degree all day in Houston summer weather, even on the freeway. I have the stock dog house and stock oil cooler too. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Ghia Nut]

Thank you guys so much for the info. I will have to look into the single port I have as it is an industrial engine. I cant tell if it is an H case or not :/

I guess my reasons for trying to use the non dog house cooler were trying to be some what period (granted I should really just get a 36hp but the damn things are soooooooo expensive now when I have an as21 case (two actually) just sitting there).

It is to my understanding that Gene Berg had some sort of design/method that you trim out the front engine tin against the fire wall near the fan opening but something about it had to be just right as the air flow could mess things up.

As far as the turbo setup. Rajays are rated to around 7lbs boost, so think slightly better than a judson. I have also ceramic coated and wrapped all manifolds.

Is a 1500 cooling setup able to draw more air on its own than a 36hp?
_________________
'59 typ1 rajay turbo
'72 Ghia rajay 1641 dual 36DRLAs, 1 3/8" SS merged header and fat boy
78" GL Vert with ej22t swap
This will likely change tomorrow to something else.

[Aussiebug]