1641cc too hot to touch.

michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: 1641cc too hot to touch.

my 1641 is getting hot. not sure if its overheating but i cannot check the dipstick bare handed after a drive to the gas station even. the dipstick is chrome not plastic so maybe its extracting and holding more heat but it just seems hot to me after short drive. Everyone i talk to says, its an aircooled bug, it gets hot im sure its fine..... Since it is MY bug, EVEN IF ITS NOT NEEDED, I WANT to put some sort of high performing additional oil cooling on the engine with an oil filter.

I wanted to know what is the best after market oil cooling system out there, since this is my dialy driver, and i live in southern california where its often hotter than not. and since its not a turbo drag racing dunebuggy i probably dont need an electric fan unless thats the way to go.

let me know what you guys run to keep your temps down.

Basic 1641cc as far as i know, standard dual port.

thanks

grandpa pete · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:36 am Post subject:

Chrome dipstick !!! what else is chrome ? chrome tins hold more heat...... then if someone left out a tin or hoover bitt ; more heat.....
.VW experimented with WHAT COLOR BLACK cooled fastest that's why it's semi flat..
.Do you have small tins UNDER where the cylinders are ......

Easiest most expensive way to cool an engine more is an external oil cooler.........
cheapest way is FIX IT ....
.somebody changed something to make it heat up.....
Timing ?
Tins ?

If you can't hold onto the dipstick it's too hot to drive !!!

Post a photo of this engine ....might be something noticeable like freeze plugs missing from the fan shroud holes where the hoses were removed????
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shortride · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:41 am Post subject:

If you're running the stock engine ventilation you might consider increasing the air flow to the engine. The carburetor could be running a little lean. Some of these other guys may chime in here with better suggestions.
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Glenn · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:43 am Post subject:

You should FIX the problem and not treat the symptoms.

If your 1641 is running hot, there's a reason.... too much ignition advance, too lean, blocked oil passages, bad oil cooler, missing engine tin.

Adding a oil cooler will get the oil temps down, but you'll still be damaging the engine.
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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

old pics, i have moved the coil to the fan shroud, wiring ect. changed the exhaust temporarily to a stock baffle style empi because the one it came with was a turbo style, grabbed concrete at gas stations ect.. making it leak. as was pointed out for me on this forum as well. as you can see there are just these two tins on the bottom im guesssing the two holes i have there are supposed to have another set both sides?

I was planning on doing the firewall tarboard, but i have the "waffle" texture kind and it was not recommended on my other thread for various reasons.

the bug starts, runs, drives perfect. as far as i can tell....
just gets hot to my knowledge. and i have no real way of knowing if its overheating. my father has had a bunch of vw's in his youth and he doesnt think its getting too hot, but hey we dont really know what temp its getting, or what "too hot" is to be honest.

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:22 pm Post subject:

It shouldn't get that hot just driving around the back streets in town! But yes tune (timing) is the first place to look! But a lot of people upgrade there pre-71 Type 1 engine to be dual port but neglect to change to the correct dog-house fan shroud with the wider fan and offset aluminum oil cooler which a the factory dual ports had. Also make sure the thermostat flaps in the fan housing are operational etc... Could just be some paper or junk in the fan! Check your engine compartment seals, they need to be keeping any hot air from under the engine from getting into the engine compartment!
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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject:

Have to remember its starting off at around 90-100 F outside when its driving around lately. the seals seem fine, im not sure how to check thermostat flaps ill lookinto that. thanks

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject:

Checking the thermostats is a mater of air flow it should be pushing a lot of hot air out under the engine when it's revved up a bit. When they are cold and the flaps are closed they don't move much air under the engine.
These are the kind of thermostat you want in there because they fail open!

But unfortunately they (VW Mexico) for some stupid reason only makes them now that look like the one in the photo below that fail in the closed position which will over-heat your beetle and burn up your engine when they fail. A very stupid thing. If you have one of these at least get a temperature gauge!

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Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject:

First get a meat or candy thermometer with about 1" diameter dial face, bigger than that will not fit into the dipstick area. You want same length or a little longer probe on it than the stock dipstick.
Measure pot of boiling water to check thermometer for 212 F or less if you are way above sea level. Then check oil temp with that thermometer.
Just because you feel the dipstick is too hot does not mean the engine is running too hot.

From your engine images you are missing rear lower cylinder tin. Plus either need stock heat exchangers or proper tin to keep the heat and air movement from the push rod tubes.
Fix both ASAP.
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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject:

If your engine has the dog-house oil cooler it will be in the back of this fan-shroud. Also I would move the coil to the fan shroud as it gets too hot for it where it's mounted. Do away with the plastic gas filter in the engine compartment where if it breaks it can douse the entire engine compartment with gas. Get a metal filter and install it under the car away from heat. Is there a gap between the rear engine compartment seal and the rear engine tin? Spread the two flaps of the seal putting one above the tin and one below to make it seal if that's not how it is. All of this should help but if it's running with not enough timing that will make it run hot.

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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject:

yeah i could push the engine seal down in there i guess i havent checked to see if there is room or a gap.

i guess my only real option is to get some sort of meat bbq guage and actually check the temps. how long should it idle before reaching operating temp?

and yeah already moved the coil.

Danwvw · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject:

Un-less there is something really wrong they won't get over about 200' degrees at Idle in the first 5 minutes best to take it out again then check it when you get home. It should be under 230' then!
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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject:

i dont even have a bbq thermometer that will work. no way to for me to tell how hot its getting.
would the bug run really well and still have something wrong with it? timing wise or valve wise? it was inspected at a VW specific shop and everything i mean everything checked out fine. so im kinda at a loss on what to do. it could possibly need a valve tune and i have electronic ignition to put in it.

the choke seems to kinda stick. when i come to a stop i frequently have to blip the throttle to get it to idle low again. progressive carb.

grandpa pete · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject:

And PLEASE get that fuel filter out of the engine compartment and off the high pressure side of the fuel pump ............BIG FIRE HAZARD
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject:

Do a search for "Engine Tin" and look thru that.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=607039&highlight=rear+cylinder+tin
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Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:46 pm Post subject:

Eric&Barb · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=599254&highlight=jtube+tin

As for the DH shroud the cooler is on the front of the fan shroud. Front is forward as in toward the front bumper.
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michaeljsmyth · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject:

thank you very much i can see now that i am missing the heat eliminator tin or j tube tin. thanks!

yeah i still have to do away with the fuel filter there... and plug the holes from the old coil location.

grandpa pete · Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:

There are several threads on putting a heat shield between J tubes and the valve covers
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