engine assembly help

[rampeyboy]

Hi guys, I am putting together my first engine, a 1600. I'm using my original case, crank and rods. I have a new W100 cam. When I assemble the case, with no cylinders, it turns but is very tight. I have verified the rods are spinning, so they're not the issue. Also I believe the crank is not the issue, because when I rock the crank back and forth it moves easily for and aft in the case (flywheel still off). Only when I try to turn the crank does it feel tight.
Upon disassembly, it appeared the cam bearings had turned in the journals, at least a little. Could I have a bad (new) cam? Could the cam bearings be wrong? I was a bit confused about where each one went, but feel confident they are in the right positions...except the cam appears to be the issue.
Later today, I'm going to reassemble the case without the cam to verify...please help!

Thanks in advance!
Boyce

[Wolfgangdieter]

I had an issue with new cam lifters not seating completely in the bores - had to champher the edge to get them to fit flush. It kept engine from turning over completely.
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[rampeyboy]

Thanks, I'll definitely look for that. This one is equally tight all the way around, with no tight spots...

[rampeyboy]

Thanks, I'll definitely look for that. This one is equally tight all the way around, with no tight spots...

[johnnypan]

Did you use new main bearings? if so,did you measure the case and crank and get the correct bearings?

[Danwvw]

Cam bearings can have a thrust bearing if you got that kind! It sometimes needs to be set by taking a rubber mallet to the end of the cam to loosen it up just a little. I used the kind that have the thrust on both sides on my last engine and it was very tight and I had to work with it a little taking the bearings to some sandpaper on a flat surface. Then check it with just the cam and cam bearings installed in the case. (Probably only need a couple of the case nut's and the two 8mm near the cam torqued to test it!) But on mine I was trying it in just the case halves with it open until I got it to loosen up.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Danwvw]

The nice thing about using dual thrust bearings on the cam is it keeps it precisely in position during operation which stabilizes the camshaft interaction with the oil pump and your .420" lift cam. It's also important to mock up the oil pump fit and make sure the cam does not cause the oil pump to walk around in the case and that the bolts on the cam gear don't hit the oil pump. Make sure the tab on the oil pump is fully engaging the slot in the cam. W-100 cams use a different oil pump than the Dished cams after 1970! The 8mm stud hole Schadek 26mm oil pump for a flat cam is what I used and I did a full flow and used a full flow cover with it. But if you don't want to have your case machined tapped and plugged for a return you can use one of these 26mm Filter Pumps or even the Maxi Pump3 which can be used with Merged Headers. What are you planning on using for lifters?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Zundfolge1432]

Try this to isolate the problem. Assemble using only the crank, leave the cam out and torque the six big nuts to 25 lbs. does it turn ? Install and torque the rest of the case nuts, does it still turn? Take back apart and install just the cam and verify it turns without binding. What you are checking for is a warped case.

Many times the binding can be traced back to a crushed main bearing because they were not fully seated before someone started to tighten things down.

Also mentioned was camshaft end play you check this prior to closing it up by seating the cam with bearings in each case half. If they are tight one very light pass of 400 grit Emory cloth will provide clearance, go slow as its easy to take off too much. Gene berg has a nice rap of this in his book of technical articles

Also I use nothing but double thrust cam bearings, it's cheap insurance. If you find the case is warped around the cam journals all is not lost PM me and I'll tell you how to fix it. I don't believe in secrets or withholding info so let me share this with you.

When you are building that short block and seating the crankshaft start with the big thrust and turn the bearing till you feel it line up with dowel pin, the split bearing is already installed, turn number three till you feel it engage the dowel, finally do the small bearing till you feel it engage. Once you are sure they are all lined up take a rawhide mallet and lightly tap on the cheeks of the crankshaft to seat the crank.

Now you check to see if it is fully seated by using the other half of the number two that's the split bearing as a tool. Lay it on the crank where it would normally ride, does it sit flat with not rocking? Good crank is fully seated index the cam and don't forget the lifters or dist drive. If the bearing doesn't lay flat the crank is not seated on the dowels you need to find out why. New bearings and fresh align bore makes for a mild interference fit. But this is desirable to maintain a proper crush on the bearings, sounds confusing huh you don't want to crush the bearings but a little is good. The engineers had this shit all figured out. Good luck

[rampeyboy]

Thanks for all the tips. Had some things come up that kept me out of the shop. I did reassemble the case without the cam, and it turns fine. So must be a cam or lifter issue, or maybe timing gears binding..

[Multi69s]

Throw some Plastigauge on your cam journals and measure your clearances. Also drop the cam in the case half and rotate the crank, does the cam try and lift out of the case? If it does, your cam gear is probably too big.
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[gimpy60]

did you put the dist.drive in & not the dist.? huh, did ja?
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How the hell ya spost ta fix it, ya don't even know how it works boy

[Zundfolge1432]

[rampeyboy]

Dist drive? Yep. Never honestly removed it from the case. Nope, didn't have the distr. in while turning it. Did I mess anything up?


I will have to check on the cam gear and let you know.

Been incredibly busy at work, so not making progress on the engine at the moment. Should be back on it Saturday. Thanks!

[Zundfolge1432]

You can't miss that dist drive its up by the number four main bearing. A steel gear about four maybe five inches long it has two thin washers under it you don't want to lose. Some folks including Bentley say to install it while you are laying the crank into the left case half. But you can install when the case is together don't sweat it.

[rampeyboy]

I never removed it. I didn't really see the point.

[gimpy60]

Boy, I think your lost in the woods. If you didn't remove the drive, how in hell can you mesh the gears so it will be where it is supposed to be.

My question being do you have the gear in place but not the dist,? If so, the drive gear will climb up in the case when you try to turn the crank & the crank will not turn.

Now answer the question, did you have the dist. installed or not.
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How the hell ya spost ta fix it, ya don't even know how it works boy

[ashman40]

[rampeyboy]

No. The drive is still in place, but the dizzy is out. I did not know the drive was going to cause an issue with the dizzy out.
I'm going to close the case again with just the cam n lifters in place and see if the cam is bound up without the crank in place. Of coarse I will put the dizzy in if it is tight and see if that helps. Thanks again!

[rampeyboy]

Picture helps. Thanks, I'll check both gears for damage!

[Zundfolge1432]

Here's what you can do, remove that dist drive and build up the case torquing everything. When it comes time to install bring the engine to TDC on number 1.
Using one of the pushrods stick down the dist hole till it bottoms out now lightly grease the two washers and while holding the pushrod drop the washers down the rod the use the rod to center them up. Now install the dist drive carefully indexed with wide offset facing the flywheel,unless it's a type three.if you don't have the special tool you can use a really big screw drive and you'll feel it seat and drop down when it engages. Now install the fuel pump to keep the gear from riding up.