2nd owner vintage speed build

[mahan]

This past spring I found a 1965 Bahama Blue beetle sitting in a back yard, knocked on the door and it turned out it was the 75 year old original owner! He said the bug was part of the family and couldn't be sold, but I kept going back and convinced him to sell it! It has every receipt from its entire life! It is original to my city, Charlotte, NC. I got it running and driving again and was able to use it as my daily driver over the summer and even drive it a few hours on the interstate out to some lakes. Sadly one Saturday morning on the way out to a cars an coffee meet the engine and tranny blew out so I decided to do a entire rebuild. I currently have the body off the pan and disassembled and the pan disassembled. I am starting on the body which will take a lot of new metal and fabrication work. I am keeping the Bahama blue patina look though. I plan on lowering the bug and I want to do a vintage speed build on the original 40 hp engine. After talking with a old Porsche mechanic I know I am considering putting a Porsche 356/912 5 speed tranny in, or at least a freeway flyer VW one. For the engine I want am thinking a Porsche 356 crank and rods or (please don't hate on this) a SPG roller crank. A performance cam any idea on which one, Engle, Norris, or Porsche? For pistons I was thinking either a original 83mm Mahle set or a Porsche 356 set. If I use Porsche should I use a stock 82mm set or a big bore 86mm set? And then for heads I am torn between either modifying the original 373 single port heads, porting and polishing them, or sourcing a original 40 hp Okrasa set. And then a dual carb set up and full flow Fram filter. So any advice is greatly appreciated! I need to do this build as affordably as possible as I'm a student, but I have been working on Air cooled for some time now and this isn't my first build by any means so all expenses will just be in parts. If you have any ideas or help that you want to get to me quickly just pm me. This is also on pre 67 VW.
Thanks, Haver

[mahan]

[GTV]

Sounds like a cool car!

A few things to clear up first:
A 356 used a swing axle 4 speed trans, a 912 used an IRS trans (either 4 or 5 speed). It's not worth the trouble or expense to install either one in a VW. I would have the original trans rebuilt with better ratios to suit the new engine.
A 356 crank will not fit in a 40hp case (it will fit in a 36hp case). Same goes for the piston and cylinder set. Best to go with an aftermarket 83mm big bore set.
An SPG crank sounds great until you price out having one restored... If you want more power at a reasonable price install a 69mm crank from a later 13/15/1600 engine (83x69= 1493cc). Good time to have it counterweighted and the flywheel lightened.
An Engle 100 (or similar grind) cam would be best suited.
The heads on your original engine were the best VW made for the 40hp, it would be much more sensible to clean up those, and increase the flow and power. Install later 35.5x32 valves. 40hp Okrasa stuff is rare and expensive. Use 1.1:1 ratio rockers from a 13/15/1600 engine as well.
40mm single barrel Kadron's will fit, are cheap, and simple.
1 3/8" header with glass pack muffler.
Use the cooling fan from the later engine as well. If you want Porsche parts, find a 356 oil cooler to replace the VW unit. Much more efficient.

My two pennies...
_________________
EMPI Power Rules!

[mahan]

Thanks for the info!

[Rome]

You asked for advice, you'll get plenty here.

Find this book- http://www.amazon.com/How-Hot-Rod-Volkswagen-Engines/dp/0912656034

It is around 40 years old but has plenty of info on 40hp modifications. As the above poster mentioned, you can fit a 69mm crankshaft from a '66 on Beetle into a 40hp case. But what the book clarifies is that you must machine down the sides of the 40hp connecting rods' big ends to fit the narrower journal width of the 69mm crank. You need to keep the 40hp rods because they have larger wrist pin diameters than those from the 1300 and later engines. The 40hp big-bore kits (83mm = 1385cc, or 1493cc with the 69 crank) have the same larger wrist pin diameters than the 83mm pistons from a factory 1500 VW engine.

Kadrons are available in single-port manifold configurations, but those manifolds alone are worth plenty and not available new. Going prices used are ~$150 for a pair. Also note that the bottom flange for the SP Kad manifolds are meant for 1300 or 1500 heads. They won't fit the 40hp head because the flanges have different shapes/stud hole spacings. The intake manifolds on 40hp engines are also level at the bottom, instead of having a slight outward tilt like those on the 1300 SP engines. If you really want to pursue Kadrons, then you'll need to saw off the Kad SP manifold base and have the manifold bases from a 40hp stock manifold carefully welded on. Lots of work.

Another possibility is to find a set of uncut 1300 heads. The 1300's engine also had 77mm pistons like the 40hp, and the head's bore for the cylinder opening have the same diameter as those from a 40hp. That means that the 40hp big-bore set which slips into the 40-hp head will also slip into the 1300's head. With the 1300 heads you now have the slightly tilted manifold flange which enables direct mounting of SP dual carb kits like KAdrons, Weber 34ICTs, etc.

Here's a shot of a friend's 1500 SP engine which was stock inside, but fitted with 34ICTs and some 36hp VW air cleaners. All it needs is a nice Santana-style crank pulley and a glasspack header to make it really look vintage speed. Possibly also a GeneBerg carb linkage...

[mahan]

Thx for the pic and I am currently reading through that book! Keep the ideas coming!

[GTV]

[Rome]

Nah, 40hp Type 1 heads all had the same intake flange/mounting arrangement. I learned about the 1300 head swap onto a 40hp case from Samba member Glutamodo; he has tremendous knowledge on 40hp engine differences. Here's a reference he made on 40hp heads-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581146&highlight=heads

Amazing about the prices for SP Kad manifolds, eh? I bought a used pair for about $40 13 years ago...

[mahan]

What do y'all think of doing a build like this

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3375755

but adding in a bigger crank and a Porsche oil cooler

[mahan]

And I also plan on removing the heater boxes and installing a gas heater instead so that should help it breath alittle better right?

[GTV]

[GTV]

[mahan]

Any idea of where I could get similar work done on my heads here in the states? Also it seems I have mismatched heads, one head the square 373 boss style and one has the more curved one

[mahan]

After talking with pre67vw I think I am going to build the original motor stock, and then get an extra 40 hp to do the speed build on. This way I can put the stock motor in and drive it when the speed motor needs help or extensive work

[mahan]

And also could I get a vote on this...

Do I leave it stock height or lowered???

I find the look of lowered VWs much more appealing but there does seem to be a lack of stock height speed beetle...

Just want to hear some opinions and why people!

[henry roberts]

a little late here but, the formula vee handbook is a good place to start for ideas on 40hp builds. it'll give you an idea on what 40hp bits are the best. you can download it from here:

http://www.fvawa.org.au/Resources

just remember you aren't limited by racing rules.

I priced getting some 373 heads done to vee spec a few years ago, I don't remember the price but it was ALOT more than I was expecting. it might be cheaper on your side of the world.
you could always try to find some professionally ported heads that are a few years out of date, they would still be better than anything a normal person could do without years of practice and knowledge.

as far as lowering, it's totally up to you. regardless of what you do some people will love it and others will hate it.

have fun.

[mahan]

Thanks! The formula vee stuff has some great ideas

[Rome]

My own suggestion would be to keep the Beetle stock height.

Mismatched heads- although I don;'t have direct experience with the round-boss 40hp heads, if you don't use the engine in competition it will probably be OK to use it. More important would be to determine the combustion chamber volume of each head and get them matched up close. This process is known as "cc-ing" the head, with "cc" being the cubic centimeters of free-space volume which would be above the cylinder top edge.

For your exhaust, if you keep the stock 40hp exhaust valves then the stock heater boxes will be fine/won't reduce exhaust flow for your purpose, even if you upgrade to the 83mm big bore set for the 1385cc. Having a working heater in the car, even in the stock "fresh air" configuration, would probably add 2 months to your driving season.

[mahan]

There also is the idea of using the stock motor with heater boxes as my winter motor and using the winter to get the speed motor tuned up perfectly and any new mods done and then running it during the spring/summer/fall

[mahan]

Is having a marvel mystery oiler a good idea? Heard it helps keep things running better with the low grade dual out there today, granted I only buy ethinal free but still worth it or not? They seem relatively cheap!