Painting Prep Work

[Ark]

Hello all, question for you guys. This winter I am planning to repaint my 181. The original paint is pretty badly oxidized and I have the beginnings of rust in a couple spots so it's about time to make repairs before it gets much worse. For those of you who have repainted their rigs, how did you prep the base metal before repainting? I've read up quite a bit on body work and automotive painting and the general consensus seems to be stay away from sand/media blasting car bodies and use a DA sander or paint stripper instead. The warning I've read is that blasting can easily overheat and warp body panels. However, I've seen several people on this board blast their Things prior to painting. Should I not be worried about sand blasting? I'm not exactly looking forward to trying to fit a DA sander between all the body ribs on the Thing so if I can get away with it I would very much prefer to use a media blaster. What do you guys think?

[Ron Domeck]

I have used all of these to remove paint. We have had bodies blasted with no problems. Soda works for paint only but not rust. Has your car been repainted? On original paint I sand as needed. If the car has been repainted outside only I strip with stripper. Inside is hard to use stripper. Look on our website and it may help. kubeltreffen181.com

[citroen]

Like brother Ron just said we at the Domeck Brothers has done the paint removal all 3 ways sanding is a lot of work here is a picture of 3 ways. You can see more on our website http://kubeltreffen181.com

sanding

soda blasting

paint stripper

[Shoyrtt]

Here are some other options that don't warp the metal:

Water blasting (uses glass media)

Acid dipping

[Ark]

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the help!

I'm a little leery of paint stripper because it seems like a difficult to deal with mess that could also remove paint from internal areas I won't be able to easily repaint. I also don't believe that we have anyone up here in Alaska who has an acid dipping operation but even if we did, I would still be concerned with internal corrosion due to internal coating being removed. In an ideal world I would have the body acid dipped followed by galvanizing to protect it everywhere. But for now I'll have to be happy with fresh paint on the exterior.

It sounds like soda blasting is the way to go. The rust spots that I do have are small enough that I should be able to deal with them individually and shouldn't need to remove the rust with blasting.

[Shoyrtt]

I shied away from soda due to this article and talking with the guys at my local paint/body supply house:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/soda-blasting-pros-cons.323470/

Post a picture of your car and the condition of the paint.

[Ron Domeck]

Most shops that soda blast can also sand blast so they could use soda then hit the rust areas with sand. In this area this would run about $2000. for a body with all the parts inside and out.

[JayC]

When I had mine done, I went to the local top end restoration shop and asked them who they used to do the sandblasting / paint removal. I wanted their opinion since they were going to do the body / paint work. They sent me to a place across the street that did all their cars. It was sandblasted all the way down to bare metal with no issues. I had zero experience with this and decided that I had to rely on the experts and wanted it done right. All told, for a complete restoration, including body and all the miscellaneous parts (that I couldn't do myself), I had about $3K in to paint stripping and removal. It was worth it and it came out great.

Note, the price above included body, doors, windshield, fenders, hood, seats, pans, brake parts, beam, etc.

It did require a bunch of air gun time to get all the sand out of the nooks and crannies!!!

jay

[Ark]

Here you go Shoyrtt. This is the worst of it (that I can see anyway). My rear passenger side rocker panel is the only place that's actually rusted all the way through. Other than that there are a lot of small rusty rock chips and dings. The paint has also oxidized and rubbed thin enough in several areas that the primer is starting to show through all though it's difficult to photograph. All of those dings represent a whole lot of fun on dirt roads through the years but it's definitely time to freshen things up.

[Ark]

If I can help it, I really enjoy fixing as much as I can myself. I haven't done any bodywork in the past but I'm planning to do as much of this as I can and hopefully won't have to take it anywhere for help. Thanks for pointing me to that article about soda-blasting Shoyrtt. Definitely something to keep in mind. I'm planning to do all the blasting and painting myself so to me soda-blasting seems like the way to go. Making sure I thoroughly clean up a stripped body seems a little less dangerous than potentially warping body panels due to inexperience. We'll see what happens anyway.

Ron Domeck, when you had your car soda blasted, how did you prevent flash rust from forming once you cleaned off the soda residue? Did you just pressure wash it, let it dry for a day and then put down primer?

[Shoyrtt]

Thanks for the pictures.

I certainly am not an expert like the Domeck Bros., but as a pencil pusher by day and DIY weekend body guy who has two Things, I'd say you don't need to blast that body. I would sand it down and spray it. It looks like the nose took a hit that might be challenging to repair.

As far as the rust, remove all of the fenders and check the condition of the lips of the fenders (the rubber welts tend to trap water) and the fender bolts and body around them. You can replace the rocker section with just a piece of sheet metal, or there are a few vendors that sell the entire outer rocker section. I would take a flapper disk on your grinder to remove the rust and paint around that hole you have in the outer rocker to assess the damage. In both of my cars, there was lots of debris and rats nests in the rockers, so be prepared for cleaning there. You should also check the inner rocker in the same area and inner and outer section of the rear wheel opening for rust.

Now if your goal was to build a show car, pull the body off the pan and blast the body clean. If its a driver, clean it up, address the rust and nose issues and drive it as soon as possible. My 73 is a driver, and I took about 5 months to get it back on the road. My 74 I replaced the nose, pulled the body off the pan and blasted both. I have been doing body work and four years later it's still in pieces.

[Ron Domeck]

I used PPG metal cleaner then PPG metal prep. scrubbed with a scuff pad and washed off. that car is 20 miles from us and has not had any problems. Now for your car I would sand as best as you can. Looks like original paint so you need only need to strip the bad areas. Factory paint that has lasted 40 years with only fading and the normal rock clips and little rust is a solid base to work with. I don't think anything we do with aftermarket paint materials will give us that good of results after 40 years and I bet the next 40 years we won't be as hard on our cars as the first 40.

[Ark]

If I were to sand the original paint and repaint, I think my method would be to start by thoroughly cleaning the body, then remove the surface layer of rust on the rust spots with a 3M scotch-brite wheel on an air tool, treat the remaining rust in those spots with a rust converter/sealer, apply body filler over the rust converter, address the rusted through portion by cutting out the rusty sheet metal and welding in a patch panel (after cleaning inside of the rocker), smoothing the welds/panel, cleaning the panel with metal prep, applying body filler, thoroughly sand all of the paint with a DA sander or block sanding by hand, clean the body with mineral spirits and then repaint. I will do quite a bit more research on the topic before I jump in but does this sound about right?

Yep Shoyrtt, the nose definitely had something happen. I've had the car for almost 15 years but the hit came before I owned it. The impact looks like it was all the way across the front apron about halfway up. Unfortunately the front passenger quarter panel shortened by about 1/2" or so and added a wrinkle around the fuel filler and slightly twisted the top of the quarter panel so that the hood doesn't quite seal. I like to drive my vehicles and this is not intended to be an all out show car but the wrinkled quarter panel does result in the trunk leaking a little. I don't mind a body imperfection here and there and the couple of wrinkles in the apron don't bother me but it would be nice to have a fully functioning vehicle. Welding in patch panels isn't too bad but straightening body panels is a little beyond my current skillset. I'm planning to take the car in to a body shop to have them see what they can do about it. What is your opinion? I have a feeling a body shop will want to put the car on a rack and try to pull the nose back out slightly but I am concerned the section in front of the doors might not be strong enough to stand a little bit of pulling. I'm sure just about any body shop will assure me that they can fix the issue but what do you guys think about the probability of damaging other, perfectly good panels on the car? Is it just easier to find another apron and quarter panel to weld on?

[Ron Domeck]

First, do not use mineral spirits or lacquer thinner for cleaning before painting. 50 % of the cars we restore has the kinks at the front 1/4's both at the front and rear by the gas filler. This is a easy pull for a shop. To put in a new panel you would remove at all the seams including the door post. About 50 or so welds.