Changed rear brake lines and brakes no longer work

zak414

I just changed the two rubber brake lines in the rear of my 69 bug and now I have absolutely no brakes in the rear. I've been bleeding the brakes for over and hour now without any progress. I've done the whole process before with success so I feel like I know how to do it properly. Prior to changing the lines, everything was fine. I just changed them because one had developed a leak.

I'm at loss here. Bleeding the brakes has been pushing air out of the system, but it never pushes any fluid through. This is my first time changing those rubber lines so maybe there is more to it than just removing the old one and putting in a new one. Please let me know if I did miss a step or if there is something else I should be looking for. Thanks.
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1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

Brian · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:53 pm Post subject:

If air is coming out, with the cap to the reservoir on or off, then there is a problem with the lines.
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zak414 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject:

What could be the problem with the lines? The rear rubber lines are brand new and everything was working fine before I swapped them out. And to rule out the possibility of the new lines being defective, I reinstalled the old ones and had the same results.

I checked and I actually have front brakes still so at this point I'm thinking the rear circuit on the master cylinder just happened to fail as I was doing some brake maintenance. Even after completely removing the rubber line in the rear, no fluid comes out when the pedal is pushed. Does that sound like a reasonable assumption?
_________________
1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

Joel73 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject:

Have you been adding fluid? Do you get any pedal pressure.

zak414 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject:

Fluid resevoir started off full and hasn't really dropped as there is no fluid being pushed through the rear lines during the bleeding process. Pedal pressure has remained minimal. Only pressure being built up is from the front brakes.
_________________
1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

Joel73 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject:

if you are getting air after you pump the brakes hold the pedal and crack the bleeder then that would mean that the fluid is pushing the air out. sooner or later if you keep at it you will get fluid. Sometimes it seems to take forever. (usually it takes the longest when my wife is pumping the brakes for me) or so it seems.

wcfvw69 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject:

Here's a tip I learned years ago when bleeding bug brakes. Adjust ALL four wheels brake as tight as you can. Turn the stars on each adjuster till you can't turn them anymore. Each wheel should be locked up.

Now, doing this prevents the pads from moving out so your wheel cylinders are not traveling outward and you get air/fluid much quicker.

Did fluid drain out when you removed your old lines and did it keep dripping until you tightened up the new lines?
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zak414 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject:

I'll try adjusting all the wheels to the point that they're locked up and see if that speeds up the process.

Fluid did drain out of the passenger side once I loosened the existing hose and until I tightened the new hose in place. The driver's side didn't leak very much and now if I remove the hose from the driver's side, no fluid comes out at all. That's the problem I'm having bleeding the brakes, only air comes out of the bleeder, no fluid at all.
_________________
1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

XR6T · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject:

Sometimes the air gets trapped in the lines if they curve above the bleeder valve. This can be an absolute *#^## to get out.

The quickest and easiest solution is a pressure bleeder.

Motive brand make a good one or you can (as I did) make a real cheap unit using a garden spray unit and a small pressure gauge.

After many frustrating hours trying to bleed my new rear brakes I made the pressure bleeder for about $20 and did the job under 15 minutes with the best pedal I have ever had.

eashc · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject:

There's a tool called a 'one man brake bleeder' Works great. They sell at retail auto parts. Also think I seen it at Harbor Freight too.

wcfvw69 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject:

zak414 · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject:

I understand that the rear wheels have the longest run of brake line, but I can honestly say that I've been trying to bleed the rear brakes for almost 2 hours today and I am still getting 100% air coming out of the bleeder. To me that seems like an unnecessary amount of time to spend on such a task. I may have to look into some sort of pressure bleeder because I feel like I'm making no progress.
_________________
1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

Joey · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:30 am Post subject:

If the brake shoes are not adjusted up to the drums you'll never get the fluid to come out back there. Try jacking the front of the car up and loosen the bleeder screws. Take a walk or whatever and let gravity do it's thing.
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jlex · Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:01 am Post subject:

Joey is suggesting you do a gravity feed. Just make sure you check on the reservoir every once in a while or else you'll be starting all over again.
Your suggestion that the master cylinder went bad is a possibility. Pumping the brakes during a bleed operation can sometimes over-extend the mechanism and ruin the MC.
I use a vacuum style bleeder attached at the bleed screw. It is hooked up to a compressor which generates the vacuum. That way, I get no complaints from the wifey as it's a one-man job & I have no worries about over taxing the MC.
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scrivyscriv · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:16 am Post subject:

Tighten all four of your shoes all the way tight, pressure bleed, then adjust shoes. Gauranteed to work
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zak414 · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:26 am Post subject:

Alright here's where I'm at now. I decided to try using gravity just to get fluid back into the rear lines so I could proceed with my normal bleeding routine. I opened up both rear bleeders and jacked up the front end. That was at around 3pm yesterday and it's now just after 8am the next day and still not a drop of fluid made it to the rear wheels!

I'm really beginning to suspect the master cylinder at this point, but can someone tell me for sure if the rear brake circuit in the master cylinder no longer works would that alone restrict the flow of fluid to the rear brakes?
_________________
1962 Bug
40 HP Engine
28 Pict Carb rebuilt by Volkzbitz
Big Cap Distributor rebuilt by Tasb

birddog1 · Samba Member Joined: March 11, 2006 Posts: 953

Sounds to me like you have a bad master cylinder

flyboy161 · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:50 am Post subject:

I'm just going to ask a question here, and someone feel free to correct me, but here goes:

1. The master cylinder is closed, (because the brake pedal is not depressed) so wouldn't that create a vacuum near the master cylinder so that NO fluid drains out ( with bleeders open)? Kind of like sticking a straw in a glass of water, putting a finger over the top of the straw and lift it out of the glass and no water will come out of the straw.

2. My opinion, if you want the fluid to gravity drain from the reservoir, jack the front end (done), open the rear bleeder (done), then brace the brake pedal all the way down and watch the reservoir and bleeders. Keep the reservoir full.and close the bleeders once fluid starts draining out. YOU HAVE TO OPEN THE VALVES IN THE MASTER CYLINDER FIRST! Otherwise your finger is basically over the top of the straw AND NOTHING WILL COME OUT!

3. If after the brake pedal is braced down (as in pushed) nothing comes out within an hour or so, you might have a bad brake master cylinder.
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scrivyscriv · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:45 am Post subject:

scrivyscriv · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:48 am Post subject:


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Changed rear brake lines and brakes no longer work
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