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shadmock
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Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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 Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: Engine Shaking At Idle... |
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Hi Folks,
I took my 74' beetle into a shop today for some new tires. They offered to clean my carb and do an alignment for no additional charge, so I said "Sure-go for it". Picked up the beetle and drove off. All was great and good for about 4 miles. Then at a stop light, while idling, I noticed the car was shaking ALOT more strongly than ever before. Normally, when at idle, it's very smooth with little to no shaking. So I drove home and opened the hood-noticed that the engine was definitely moving side to side like never before. It was too late to call the shop to see how they "cleaned" my carb. I tried to adjust the Bypass screw and volume control screw ever so slightly, but nothing stopped the shaking. I did the Idle cutoff solenoid test and it's clicking like it should. I took the car on the freeway and hauled ass for a 12 mile run (thinking I could cook anything out of the carb) and when I parked after the run, the same shaking thing started happening again-this time my Oil light started to light up then fade away. Any ideas as to what may have happened? Would just spraying Carb cleaner into the carb create this much of a difference in an otherwise smooth running engine (1600 w a 34PICt/3 carb)? Apologies for lack of information as to what method the shop used to clean the carb, but it's late and I'm racking my novice brain!!  |
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Aussiebug
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Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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My guess... they knocked a plug wire off and it's running on three cylinders.
Test - with the engine idling, pull one plug wire off the top of the distributor cap at a time (insulated pliers please - an 18000v shock is no joke!). If the engine dies or drops revs, that plug was firing OK. If there is no change, then that plug was NOT firing.
Question - why would a tyre shop due a carb clean?
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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shadmock
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Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the quick response!!-I will check first thing tomorrow morning--I believe the shop is one of those that offers "complete service"  |
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Dwayne1m
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Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 3538
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiebug wrote: |
Question - why would a tyre shop due a carb clean? |
I thought the same thing. I never heard of someone out of the blue offering to clean a carb. I wonder exactly how they cleaned it. |
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andk5591
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Yeah - you learned a lesson on "quick service shops". But besides the possible plug wire, did they maybe set the idle too low. Should be around 900 RPMS. And if you do have a plug wire that is off or messed up, you MAY need to pull and clean the plug.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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jlex
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Joined: January 23, 2009
Posts: 2902
Location: NW Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Check the plug wires' attachment to the distributor cap. I'm thinking a couple of wires came off & were reinstalled incorrectly. Correct firing sequence is 1-4-3-2.
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'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
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Cusser
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Location: Hot Arizona
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flyboy161
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Joined: December 26, 2009
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Location: Perry, GA
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shadmock
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your input! I just spoke to the manager from the shop and he said all the mechanic did was spray the carb with carb cleaner and wipe it down. I just checked my spark plug cables and they are all connected to plugs and distro in the proper order. As far as vacuum tubes go, I only have a couple that connect to the "nerf football" style air filter cover/housing (I have a 009, so there's no vac advance hose-all related ports are plugged off on carb). Would a simple spray cleaning into carb require one to make major or minor idle adjustments? |
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flyboy161
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Location: Perry, GA
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shadmock
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Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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flyboy,
Bocar 34PICT 3.... |
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| You might try cleaning out the idle jet (right side of carb behind a brass nut) with some Gum Out spray. Even the smallest bit of crud there will do that. |
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Cusser
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Location: Hot Arizona
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Volks Wagen
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Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| shadmock wrote: |
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your input! I just spoke to the manager from the shop and he said all the mechanic did was spray the carb with carb cleaner and wipe it down. I just checked my spark plug cables and they are all connected to plugs and distro in the proper order. As far as vacuum tubes go, I only have a couple that connect to the "nerf football" style air filter cover/housing (I have a 009, so there's no vac advance hose-all related ports are plugged off on carb). Would a simple spray cleaning into carb require one to make major or minor idle adjustments? |
Does it sound like it is idling at a lower rpm than normal?
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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shadmock
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Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| It sounded like it wanted to crap out when I started it this morning--it seems worse than it was last night--I gave the bypass screw a slight turn counter-clockwise to keep the engine from dying--I set the volume screw to about 12 o'clock-moving it ever so slightly....maybe I'm complicating things by messing with those screws |
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HRVW
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Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 2531
Location: Rosarito, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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 All kinds of suggestions while some are Good and some Bad when the 34-3 is involved.
Back off the idle Jet behind the round choke 1/4 of a turn to see if it makes any difference...if it does then screw back its should act up again which means a particle of ? is in there and needs to be blown out with a carb cleaner or compressed air.
After that back off both the large and small screws 2-3 turns whiule wengine RPM will increase.
Screw in the large screw until engine starts to hesitate and then back off 1-1/2 turns and then do same with the small screw.
May have to repeat 2-3 times un til your happy with the setting.
Should also say that the timing should be 7.5 degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM.
Also hope that the throttle plate is 1/4 of a turn open with the idle screw otherwise above will be all a waste.
Many here complain about the 009 dist and the 34-3 combo being bad with the dizzy...I mean Dist while the real problem is the CORRECT adjustment with the CARB while VW made probably millions of the 009..
(VW mechanic) |
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Aussiebug
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Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| HRVW wrote: |
Should also say that the timing should be 7.5 degrees BTDC at 3000 RPM.
Also hope that the throttle plate is 1/4 of a turn open with the idle screw otherwise above will be all a waste.
Many here complain about the 009 dist and the 34-3 combo being bad with the dizzy...I mean Dist while the real problem is the CORRECT adjustment with the CARB while VW made probably millions of the 009..
(VW mechanic) |
Typo re the timing I think - with a 009 it should ALWAYS be 30-32 degrees at 3000rpm, then you can see where the idle advance is - usually between 5 and 10BTDC, and you can then use THAT static setting on THAT engine with THAT 009 in future (009s vary).
And HRVW, although VW made lots of 009s, they used them on stationary/industrial engines which are almost always used in near constant speed conditions - generators, blowers, compressors etc. The 009 works fine for that, and is cheaper to make (VW always liked to save a few cents where they could). But it's just not the best for any road car when you have both varying rpms and varying load, so the vacuum distributors work much better. And since the vacuum distributors will REDUCE the amount of advance when needed, you can use MORE advance at other times for smoother engine and better fuel economy. So the 009 has to be set at "worst case" or the "safety" setting of 30-32 degrees max advance, where the vacuum distributors can make up to 40-42 degrees. A vacuum distributor allows you to run the engine a little leaner too - with the 009 the normal compensation for the "missing" vacuum advance is to run the engine rich through it's rev range, replacing the missing advance with extra fuel to disguise the stumbles. That extra fuel costs you more of course, and it also dilutes the oil film on the cylinder walls more than necessary, so engine wear is increased.
SHADMOCK, for a complete step by step tune-up guide
www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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shadmock
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Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob, Thank you for the info on the 009--the carb was rejetted w a bigger/wider jet a few months ago by a trusted shop in Burbank--not sure exact size though--I hesitated to say this, but I ended up taking the Bug to an experienced vintage VW mechanic who I discovered is very close to my pad. I did so because of my work schedule and lack of tools...I'm waiting for what he says-he thought everything was running fine at first, but once the engine warmed up after rolling away (4miles) it began rocking again...so I took it back earlier today & left it in his care--he thinks it may be carb related.......I also noticed a haze of thin smoke in the engine compartment & a stronger smell of exhaust fumes last night as well.... |
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Volks Wagen
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Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| shadmock wrote: |
| Rob, Thank you for the info on the 009--the carb was rejetted w a bigger/wider jet a few months ago by a trusted shop in Burbank--not sure exact size though--I hesitated to say this, but I ended up taking the Bug to an experienced vintage VW mechanic who I discovered is very close to my pad. I did so because of my work schedule and lack of tools...I'm waiting for what he says-he thought everything was running fine at first, but once the engine warmed up after rolling away (4miles) it began rocking again...so I took it back earlier today & left it in his care--he thinks it may be carb related.......I also noticed a haze of thin smoke in the engine compartment & a stronger smell of exhaust fumes last night as well.... |
Maybe somehow you've a new vacuum leak that develops between the manifold and head on one or other sides when the engine warms, thus making the engine run leaner and maybe knock the power down on one side of the block so it shakes and rocks a runs poorly. Test for vacuum leaks?
Perhaps your exhaust got knocked a bit loose at the shop on a jack or lift etc and now it leaks a bit when warm and things expand. Try blocking off the exhaust pipes with a gloved hand and see if you hear exhaust escaping on one side..
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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shadmock
Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hello everyone,
UPDATE:
VW mechanic tightened carb to engine bolts, replaced points and adjusted my timing. Runs great now- Mechanic mentioned my coil was getting hotter than normal so I replaced it (black oil filled no-name style) with the Made in Brazil Blue Bosch today. Thank you to everyone who offered their input--I now have a better idea for trouble shooting future shaking issues! 
On a side note--I made a left turn yesterday in 3rd gear-normally I shift to 2nd before turns. When I parked after the turn, I could smell a strong burning smell. I didn't smell it at all at any of the several red lights I encountered before my destination. The smell went way and I didn't smell it again yesterday or on today's drive. Any cause for concern? This was after 8.5 miles (with plenty of red lights). Parking brake was Off, Clutch seems to be working fine. |
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