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How hard to convt. from auto to manual trans?
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hdenter
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: How hard to convt. from auto to manual trans? Reply with quote

I have been casually looking for a late model carrat in my area to put my wife in. It seems like every time a van comes up that meets my criteria for int/ext style and conditions, the van is an automatic. I HATE automatics! I have no spares for automatics. I do have a complete shift mechanism from an '84 and a complete '85 van to pull from. So, modest PIA or Major PIA? Anyone done this?

Hans
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a full write-up in the archives detailing the whole process.

You mention that you hate automatics but that's not really relevant if your wife is going to be the primary driver. Here's a far more pertinent question... How does your wife feel about automatics?

I always preferred manuals and automatics never even made it on my radar until my wife told me she wanted to get an automatic. For a few years I kept ONE automatic for her to drive. After a while it sunk in that whenever I had to do any work on her vehicle I was relegated to the position of family chauffeur. It eventually also sunk in that while she insisted on driving automatics, I could actually drive BOTH a manual OR an automatic. Idea It also sunk in that the difference between driving a manual and driving an automatic was not as significant as the inconvenience of being the sole driver in the family whenever her car was down. All of those realizations brought me to the point of deciding to get an automatic vanagon and, of course, convert it to a TDI and eventually high top in order to be 'the one that I keep'.

This brings me to my point... against all my internal protestations, once I relaxed my judgment and looked at the experience objectively, I realized that I absolutely love driving my automatic TDI vanagon MORE than any of the other vanagons that I have owned or driven. It's fantastic. The hit in fuel economy is a little sad, but with the TDI I still always do better than 25 MPG and the difference in fuel economy between a manual and an automatic is not enough to pay for the cost of liability insurance on another vehicle. Anyway, you might want to give the automatics a try.
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dixoncj
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
There's a full write-up in the archives detailing the whole process.

You mention that you hate automatics but that's not really relevant if your wife is going to be the primary driver. Here's a far more pertinent question... How does your wife feel about automatics?

I always preferred manuals and automatics never even made it on my radar until my wife told me she wanted to get an automatic. For a few years I kept ONE automatic for her to drive. After a while it sunk in that whenever I had to do any work on her vehicle I was relegated to the position of family chauffeur. It eventually also sunk in that while she insisted on driving automatics, I could actually drive BOTH a manual OR an automatic. :idea: It also sunk in that the difference between driving a manual and driving an automatic was not as significant as the inconvenience of being the sole driver in the family whenever her car was down. All of those realizations brought me to the point of deciding to get an automatic vanagon and, of course, convert it to a TDI and eventually high top in order to be 'the one that I keep'.

This brings me to my point... against all my internal protestations, once I relaxed my judgment and looked at the experience objectively, I realized that I absolutely love driving my automatic TDI vanagon MORE than any of the other vanagons that I have owned or driven. It's fantastic. The hit in fuel economy is a little sad, but with the TDI I still always do better than 25 MPG and the difference in fuel economy between a manual and an automatic is not enough to pay for the cost of liability insurance on another vehicle. Anyway, you might want to give the automatics a try.


Man, I love my reliable as hell, proven over 5 decades three-speed automatic.
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uncommonvw
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Auto to manual Reply with quote

You live in CA.

There are plenty of late model Vanagons with a 4 speed to choose from.

I would say it's would be less work to look harder for one and travel a bit to get it than to swap all of the parts over. No?

..I would think it is much quicker to spend a day driving to get a factory installed 4 speed than to deal with all the hassles involved in doing the auto to manual swap?

I tried adding some links for you as examples but the whole post came up blank. I'm sure if you look a little harder you will find what you're after.

How much are you looking to spend?
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a couple of days work for one person, and you can take your time, the drive shafts on an auto are different, some auto's had a steel bracket under the dash for the brake booster, some had the same aluminum bracket that the manuals had, with just a blank spacer where the clutch pedal would have been.
so you could get away with just adding a pedal, or replacing the whole cluster
i have done 3 now, if you were closer i could do the job for you.
i would be sure to have everything you'll need before you start, it'd be a good time for a booster upgrade as you need to have it all out anyway
if you get a complete pedal cluster, take the clutch pedal out, and check the clevis pin, from the factory a pitiful amount of grease, usually none was used so they wear oval or to a slot, this will give you a sloppy clutch pedal feel as there is more play than was intented
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I've been a devoted car guy forever. Shunned automatics. I've also developed vehicles for major automakers and been Worldwide Powertrain Planner for General Motors, so I have a formal background in some of what I'm about to say.

I have had a manual Vanagon and now an automatic. Hands down I prefer the automatic. Some of this is because I can cruise around with a coffee cup in one hand, but a lot of it is the auto does so much better in the mountains..

But overall it seems to match the van experience better in intrinsic ways hard to describe. Just easing down roads chilling and smoothly being comported along without the "on/off" jerkiness of constantly shifting a low powered engine in a heavy vehicle. So, I'd consider getting an auto and driving it for a while before making up your mind.
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hdenter
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments! My wife is good with a stick Wink I actually have a 5spd AAP trans for it. We both drive over a 1500' 7% grade every day. It is important to us to be able to climb it at 55mph so as not to become a traffic statistic. In an automatic or a 4spd that means winding it up to 4500+rpm for extended periods of time and that is not acceptable. My 5spd in my '85 gets me up at 55mph and 3500rpm easy peasy.

There are lots of vans here in CA and I go through every Caigslist from the O.C. to S.F. on a daily basis. The problem is that I need a van that is in nice enough shape inside and out that my wife can feel respectable about driving it while having some mechanical issues that will bring it's price down. I have engines and trans and all sorts of parts. There was a sweat '90 carrat a couple weeks ago with a perfect body and great interior and a blown engine. I was the first caller and we agreed to talk the next business day when the shop it had been serviced at was open and I could talk to the mechanic. When I called at 8:05 AM on Monday to tell him I would take it, he told me he sold it to someone who could tow it that day... so much for letting me have first shot. Thanks a lot! Anyway, clean carrats with nice interiors and good paint that do not need any major restoration work are overwhelmingly automatics.

Thanks for the insight on the conversion Rubbachicken and I will read through that thread on the conversion.

Hans
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an observation from living on both coasts. For whatever reason almost all the Carats I saw for sale when I lived back east were manual and almost all the ones for sale now that I live in CA are auto. Weird. You could consider opening up your search to other parts of the country.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a few vans here in the classifieds that looked nice out in the mid west and AZ. Just too far to take a chance on and none of them needed an engine or trans.

Hans
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it was modest. I gutted my Synco and moved everything into a Carat body. I didn't do the complete Syncro transplant yet, just the tranny, engine, pedal cluster and locking diff. vacuum components.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too shunned automatic Vanagons until I drove one recently and I was amazed at how nice it was.

While I tend to be a manual snob and recently converted one of my other vehicles from automatic to std, I'd definitely consider an automatic Vanagon after that experience.

It was smooth, peppy and just... easy.

Also, with an active lifestyle, we always keep at least one automatic vehicle in the fleet.

Automatics come in very handy during those inevitable orthopedic recovery times, such as when my wife had her left ankle worked over or when I fractured my right elbow mountain biking in the desert outside of Moab ("Full phalangeal motion, no digital paresthesias, ... Yes it hurts like Hell no, we're not going in to the ER, sling me up, we're staying out here!")

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough to find a 4-speed Vanagon in California? Think of how those of us who live East of the Mississippi feel. It's really slim pickings here.

btw- I like my auto a lot more than I ever thought I would.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand matching your gearing to your climb. I do have to add, I stumbled into a Westy with an Auto. I love it. Buy an auto. If you don't like it, swap it. It is a bolt in job. I have never driven a five speed manual. Is the five speed close ratio with the same final drive as a four speed, or an overdrive?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just did Cuesta grade last week, drop it into 2nd as the speed drops below 60 and mine holds about 55, it is an almost-2.2 though,
just had to get into this auto love-fest even though it sounds like you know what you want, respect.
AT does seem to count as a negative on the price and is one of the reasons I was able to get my van! If you do buy an auto and swap it take a video of it being driven to prove it's a runner when you sell.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: auto to manual conversion Reply with quote

I converted my 86 from an auto to a manual using a donor 85 parts van that I bought just for that purpose. I bought my 86 in 1998 cheap partly because it had an auto, and I drove it for years with the auto. I really like manuals, and I would convert again in a heartbeat. well, maybe it would take me a couple of days. It was a bolt in. I had rebuilt the pedal assy from the 85, and installed it a year before I finished the rest of the swap. I used the clutch hydraulic tube, the transmission, which I rebuilt with advice and parts from Long's Transmission, clutch and flywheel from the 1985. The driveshafts were different, so CV's got repacked and the drive axles from the 85 were used. I still haven't hooked up the back up lights, and the shift box, shift rod and shifter mechanism from the 85 was used. I wouldn't change back unless my physical condition required it. My wife is a big fan of autos, and although she can drive a manual, she dislikes it as much as I dislike an auto. So, I keep 2 automatic vehicles for her. That way, if one of her vehicles breaks down (you know, if one of her automatic transmissions fails) she still has something to drive.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: auto to manual conversion Reply with quote

Tbob wrote:
That way, if one of her vehicles breaks down (you know, if one of her automatic transmissions fails) she still has something to drive.


I find that a little funny. The vanagon automatic is more robust and long lasting than the vanagon manual trans.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to make that point as well. The autos are way more durable. With manuals, you can be on the side of the road for a clutch master, a slave cylinder, any part of the ginormous 13 foot long shifter mechanism, or the notorious and zero-warning 3/4 slider fail.

But yeah, mostly I like the simple serenity of an auto in a Vanagon. You have nothing else to do while driving but relax, look around, and watch the temp guage.

Doug
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah! And countdown from the time I posted THAT, to a new thread appearing on a blown automatic transmission from a new member is...3.....2......1........

Too funny Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could not pay me enough to own or drive an auto.
if i wanted 2 pedals i'd ride a bicycle.
they may be good in traffic, not so good when your lights have been left on and you are in the middle of no where.
pretty good at wasting fuel, and i like to feel in control of the car i'm driving, i like to use the engine to help slow the van too sometimes.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
you could not pay me enough to own or drive an auto.
if i wanted 2 pedals i'd ride a bicycle.
they may be good in traffic, not so good when your lights have been left on and you are in the middle of no where.
pretty good at wasting fuel, and i like to feel in control of the car i'm driving, i like to use the engine to help slow the van too sometimes.


Two pedals is awesome, plenty of room for my big feet, never left my lights on with the Westy, add an idiot buzzer if needed, wastes a bit more fuel for the comfort of relaxing while driving, I will pay the "relax" fee no problem, I feel in control too, i have first, second, D, which brings up last point, do you know you can downshift an auto tranny to help slow down the van? Besides that, I like to feel in control (you mean squeeze more hummmmps?) when I'm driving my sports car, my Westy is driven with a different attitude. Very Happy

Being from Europe, I've driven manual cars all my life, however, I would never trade my Westy with auto tranny for a manual.
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