CatLady '76 Riviera

CatLady · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: CatLady '76 Riviera

Hey Samba Friends-
I took my bus to another air cooled mechanic that was recommended and a lot easier to get to than the first one I went to. A couple of hours after I dropped it off I got a call. The guy said that the #3 cylinder head dropped (on the exhaust seat, I think he said.) He said that I needed a engine rebuild. Sad

The quote he gave me was $3800-4800. He said that they use all new parts except for the cranks, rods and fly wheel.

Another thing that happened is that the oil light came on when the engine would idle. (Only when it idled. It was fine when it was running. Last time I checked the oil it was fine and there were no leaks under the bus.) It was fine on the way there but started it on the way back to my kitchen.

I just got back and haven't researched much here or on ratwell. (Figured it out. I just noticed the "title only" option for searches. Much better.)

Thank you for all your help while I've been figuring this out.
_________________
'76 Riviera
2.0 Liter
FI
Type 4

'63 Bug
1600 cc, 12V
Restored interior, OG paint

Wasted youth · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:12 pm Post subject:

EDIT: misread part of OP's original post!

Without knowing the exact nature of your engine's defect beyond what he told you, it sounds like he is selling more work than may be necessary. Having a dropped valve seat would not absolutely require a full on rebuild of the entire engine, but certainly would likely be cause for a deep inspection of the case for fragments and measuring.

Sounds more like a quick diagnosis and remedy without a more thoughtful approach.

CatLady · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject:

Wasted youth · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject:

No, you're good. I simply needed to slow down and read the statement. Embarassed

Did you drive your bus to the mechanic under its own power, or what?

CatLady · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject:

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject:

CatLady · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject:

Found this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=423988

And this one:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301614&highlight=

Will be reading.

So bummed.

My regular car got totaled a few weeks ago. I could put the insurance $ into the bus engine and make it my new daily driver.
_________________
'76 Riviera
2.0 Liter
FI
Type 4

'63 Bug
1600 cc, 12V
Restored interior, OG paint

Wasted youth · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:04 pm Post subject:

Any way you slice it, it's going to be expensive. Type 4 parts are more expensive and there are fewer choices as well. I certainly don't advocate the thought process of 'just change out the bad head!' that often happens. But I do find the blanket notion of 'it needs a complete rebuild' without more investigation a little alarmist.

Who knows what else is in there? Maybe it needs even more machine work? Maybe the cost would exceed what he told you... maybe you're better off with a long block.

Hell, I wasn't there. Just speculating as a detached fourth party.

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:57 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

Find someone through your local VW club who will check your engine out for you, or check the air cooled rescue list for someone in your area. Someone who is familiar with a Type 4 fuel injected engine may see something simple that a shop might have missed.

aerosurfer · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:46 am Post subject:

Or see if you can source a working t4 motor locally that would get you back on the road. Usually those motors are 600-1500. Of course if you cant see it run first its definately buyer beware
_________________
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72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)

poptop tom · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:08 am Post subject:

As was mentioned above, you should find someone local that is willing to help you (that also knows type 4's, and doesn't have financial gain in mind) and get a better idea of what you need for that engine.
If it needs a rebuild, you should consider calling Adrian, at http://www.headflowmasters.com/index.html
_________________
'76 Deluxe Campmobile

CatLady · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:04 am Post subject:

CatLady · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:06 am Post subject:

CatLady · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:08 am Post subject:

CatLady · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:10 am Post subject:

aeromech · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject:

I assume your mechanic did a compression check and may have looked at the valve stem height to say that the valve seat dropped in #3. That's what happened to this guys bus.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

He was on a cross country trip and kept driving with the bad cylinder. When he got here I helped him pull the engine and then he took the heads to Adrian for rebuild ($800). The guy (Mike) put it all back together but he found low compression in #3 cylinder. Turns out that this was caused by driving it with zero compression because of the valve seat but then wearing out the rings because he left the injector connected. So if you keep driving it much pull off the connector to that injector at least.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
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Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

richparker · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject:

Have you tried Painters Grinding there in Denver. I know they do T1 engine but I'm not sure about t4s. Worth a shot. There's KCW in GJ also. Curtis4085 has had a good amount of dealings with Painters. Maybe you should send him a PM. I've never used them, I just know they are there. Good luck.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
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SGKent · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject:

if it dropped a valve seat the damage will be easy to see from the outside. The valve stem will be a different height, and there will be little to no compression on that cylinder.

The bus should not be driven. You could use someone like Colin (Amskeptic) to help fix it but he is thru with that part of the country for the year.

if that happened to a bus I was responsible for I would mentally know that the bus would be down for at least a month. And, when I put it back together everything on that new motor would be right, not just the original issue fixed.

It is not a daily driver candidate. It will cost you much more to fix than any insurance company will cover if you use it as your primary car for one. For two it is a high theft vehicle if you start leaving it parked in places you can't see it like movie theater lots etc.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

Lil Lulu · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject:

I agree with others that cash put into a daily will pay off better in the long run. Yes, quality parts for a t4 are right about twice that of a t1. Accept no band-aids. Do it all or none if you decide to try to make it your dd.

To give you a reference, I have over $8000 in my t4 engine (now that same engine is $20,000 turnkey) and I did all but the machine work myself. Sure, it's not stock but I don't really see how you could even squeak by on <$5000. New parts and "new parts" are two different things. Get some references on the shop and check them.

Buying a used engine....meh.
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'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus

'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002

'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles


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