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dixoncj Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004 Posts: 1083 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: Biggest bloody knuckle PITA to replace on a Vanagon? |
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My vote would have to be for the 2.1 (well, and the 1.9 for that matter) water pump.
What sort of fiendish Teutonic sadist dreamed up the location and engineering of this thing? I mean, seriously. While I was bloodying my knuckles trying to get the f'ing pump off my '91 for the past couple of days, I had this recurring vision of Hans and Franz as VW designers (yeah, I know they're Austrian, but you get my drift) during an engineering session for waterizing the airboxer.
Hans: Vell, ve haf to putten ze wasserpompen somewhere on this silly frankenmotor.
Franz: Yah, so let's make it so dat ze puny mechanics will cry und beg for mercy while changing it. Und then ve vill laugh at these girly men.
Hans: Yah, let's make it zo even so-called great mechanics vill tremble with fear when they zay 'wasserboxer waterpumpitude.'
Franz: Yah. I zay first, we make it zo dat unless you want to removenzee main pulley from the motor - und ALL ze belts, you have to have'enzee special u-joint socket to take off zee side nut from zee stud for zee pump.
Hans: Yah, und then, ve vill create a rubber pipe with two different sized endings runniing from ze oil cooler to ze tiny pipe on ze waterpump. To remove ze bottom nut from ze stud, you vill have to remove zis crazy pipe - und zis will be almost impossible unless you cut it in half.
Franz: Yah, und with the strange size, ze rubber pipe will be incredibly rare and impossible to get unless the girly man orders it special, so his girly van will stay in ze shop longer und his girly wife will yell at him even longer und tell him to buy a Dodge.
Hans: Yah, und we will attach two metal pipes to ze bottom of ze pump, und they vill be bolted in with allen bolts zat will be impossible to get to. Especially if you have girly man air conditioning.
Franz: You vill need a complete professional Arnold Schwarzenegger zet of mechanic tools!
Hans: Yah, und then let's make it zo that ze metal pipe under the pulley will get in ze way of ze pump even after you unscrew ze pump from ze studs. Zo even if you scream like puny girly men at ze pump, it won't move a muscle because ze studs are so long!
Franz: Yah, here me know and believe me later, and think about it five days from now - because that's how long it will take to replace it. You will be begging for mercy.
Hans: Yah, let's do more of this kind of engineering on all zee pipes. You will need steroids just to work on our underpowered engine. Uncle Arnold vould be zo proud. |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know.
There's a couple things back there like that.
The dipstick tube.
The muffler brackets.
And removing either exhaust cross over pipe is always a war of wills.
Sometimes I get the feeling that things were meant to be done after dropping the engine and trans as a unit.
... or they just weren't meant to be done at all.
Maybe a Vanagon was only expected to live for 7 yrs and then be driven to a scrap yard. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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NoNameNeeded Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2014 Posts: 150 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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The first pita project on my 87 was the rear brakes and then a few months later I had to do the water pump and that was worse! After that(and after the majority of my tools were stolen) I found a good Vanagon specialist to repair anything that I didn't want to tackle myself. _________________ No matter how I struggle and strive
I'll never get out of this world alive.
Hank Williams |
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dixoncj Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2004 Posts: 1083 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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j_dirge wrote: |
I don't know.
There's a couple things back there like that.
The dipstick tube.
The muffler brackets.
And removing either exhaust cross over pipe is always a war of wills.
Sometimes I get the feeling that things were meant to be done after dropping the engine and trans as a unit.
... or they just weren't meant to be done at all.
Maybe a Vanagon was only expected to live for 7 yrs and then be driven to a scrap yard. |
Or to have its motor replaced with a high-tech simpler model from Ford... |
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OhChit Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004 Posts: 271
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I wrench on many different Vanagons, and Although there are many PIA's to fix.
I'm torn between broken Exhaust Studs, that need to be drilled and re-Tapped.. Usually requiring the Head to be removed to gain proper access.
And for those that's been here many times B4 yes a PIA
Butt the Winner Has to be
1.9 Water Pump
Although at 1st glance it looks to be a fairly easy R&R job. Probably the biggest PIA is replacing the Water Pump on a 1.9 wbx on engines that has PS, and AC units.. With no problems easily a Day to - 2 day job..
Many of these water pumps and Thermostat Housings have not been touched by a wrench in 10 or 20++++ years have seen many that were original dating back some 30 years.
But if your trying to fix one that someone already Flubbed up by breaking off bolts etc on the F'edup convoluted waterpump, thermostat, / Head coolant Nipple it can easily ruin your week.
Just replacing a Thermostat in one of these Basket Cases can easily turn into a nightmare making a Halloween Scary Movie look Tame..
. _________________ Fast Cars, and Slow Women Makes me DrooL. |
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Syncroincity Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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The first front brake job I did on my Syncro nearly reduced me to tears; the discs were rusted so solidly to the hub that I ended up shattering them with a sledge hammer...
Which made me feel much better. _________________ '86 Syncro CHC Top AAZ Turbodiesel
'04 Passat Variant 4Mo 5MT
Vanagon Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466866&highlight= |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5390 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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That's some funny stuff, dixoncj!
Vanagon - The gift that keeps on giving! _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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0to60in6min Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006 Posts: 3416 Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I worked with a VW vanagon mechanic once to replace the water pump... together we took 6 hours to finish the job...
yeah... a tough job.. even for 2... |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've restored over a dozen cars, and the Syncro starter removal about had me in tears. Not only is the fit against the fuel tank insane, but mine had a locking diff actuator which turned out to be quicker to totally destroy and replace, so poorly were its mounts designed.
I've heard the Syncro fuel pump is right up there as well.
Whew, I feel better now... _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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1vw4x4 Banned
Joined: June 22, 2005 Posts: 472 Location: Pgh. PA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have to agree the syncro starter is the all time worst. Keep in mind this
was the work of the Austrians. Not the Germans (VW) . The Syncro fuel pump is really easy.
Now after a few of these starters you lean a few
tricks. You simply lower the right rear engine mount a few inches. Then
there is no need to destroy the axles lock. Vanagons have lots of tricks
to the trade. One last thing. The DPM (Dam Previous Mechanic) can
do a lot of harm that only shows up the next time around. Over tightening
bolts installed without anti-seize is a recipe for disaster, on these vanagons today.
If I sense that anything I will be working on was butchered like this, I warn my customers that I'm billing by time and materials only, and explain why.
IdahoDoug wrote: |
I've restored over a dozen cars, and the Syncro starter removal about had me in tears. Not only is the fit against the fuel tank insane, but mine had a locking diff actuator which turned out to be quicker to totally destroy and replace, so poorly were its mounts designed.
I've heard the Syncro fuel pump is right up there as well.
Whew, I feel better now... |
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Phishman068 Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 1867 Location: Pittsburgh PA (ish)
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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The syncro starter on a diff lock equipped van is without any doubt, terrible.
It would also be hard to argue that the clutch slave cylinder on a syncro (the fuel tank wraps around it) is anything but terrible either.
But my all time worst job, which took SEVERAL weekends of planning, head scratching, and cursing,
Was installing aftermarket front springs on a syncro with oil shocks. (The gas shocks make this job WAYYYY easier, as does a $300 tool).
That job was absolutely mind blowingly bad. It truly didn't seam possible at points, and SEVERAL Professional Mechanical Engineers looked at it as well as several mechanics and simply could not find a way to get that spring, on that shock, on that bus.
I've since purchased the proper tool, which makes it a breeze, but man.....
That task truly didn't seam possible at times. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559766&highlight=winter+rust
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482402&highlight=sunroof+syncro
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569774
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6864936#6864936
"Along with the ability to go fast, one looses the desire to hurry." |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Heh - that Syncro starter was not coming off with the locker actuator and its bracket in place. I was happy to reassemble with fresh new parts and be done with it. I think the actuator cost me $70 in those days but I suspect it saved me 3 hours of screwing around. Lowering the engine helps greatly with removal of the starter itself as noted, but the actuator and its bracket are in the line of fire to even BEGIN the starter removal. Whew, I'm getting hives with the memories.... _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10248 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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As a side note, the other day I was watching a tech working on the top end of a full size Dodge truck with the straight 6 diesel. I could tell by the tools and bits he was having trouble as he stretched his arms into the back of the engine bay nearly elbow length BEHIND the back edge of the hood opening. I could not believe it so I walked out there to watch. He told me that to get pushrods up and out of the block there are special holes way back there so you can push them up into the dashboard/cowl area!! Talk about cramped! It looked like there was a foot of engine BEHIND the hood opening. Wow - at least the engineers put those holes in the body design, though. That's a huge block... _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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westyventures Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 2306 Location: Oregon Outback
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Last 2.1 WP I did, on-site for a friend in Kansas, after having not touched one in about 5 years - I did in about 3 hours total and that wasn't rushing.
My Syncro starter is a breeze! But I also don't recall every using any 'choice words' last WBX-Syncro starter I replaced.
These rigs are a breeze compared to some of the 80's and 90's Asian crap cars I was forced to work on in the past. |
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rubbachicken Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: socal
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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water pumps, meh
try 6 hours to get the f**king alternator off of a 1.9, i ended up drilling a hole through the body inline with the pivot bolt, an stilll couldn't get it off, we ended up taking out the alternator mount from behind the water pipe across to the water pump.
syncro starters, i take out the lower stud, tap the thread all the way through, then use a countersunk bolt threaded in from the engine side, and put a nut on as usual, when it's time to remove the starter, take out the nut, back the bolt out flush, and the starter comes out much easier _________________ lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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The blower fan motor.
I believe it was about an 8 hour job for a 80 dollar part replacement. Would have been easier to cut a hole through the front of the van and do the body work.
The mechanic that did the one on my mom’s 88 Westfalia said that in the VW factory, when they build a Vanagon, they start off with the blower motor hanging from a string, then they build the van around it. _________________ Air does not freeze. Air does not boil.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807 |
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1vw4x4 Banned
Joined: June 22, 2005 Posts: 472 Location: Pgh. PA
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Actually this job is not that hard, just a lot of stuff to do. No area that is
totally unacceptable from any angle.
I also clean up the rust, insulate, and replace all the foam on the vent doors. This all eats up time. DOne right this is well worth it.
I've got mice in my new
syncro heat fan, and I can't stand the smell.
bobnorman wrote: |
The blower fan motor.
I believe it was about an 8 hour job for a 80 dollar part replacement. Would have been easier to cut a hole through the front of the van and do the body work.
The mechanic that did the one on my mom’s 88 Westfalia said that in the VW factory, when they build a Vanagon, they start off with the blower motor hanging from a string, then they build the van around it. |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4536 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone for 2wd lower ball joints?
1.9 WP is up there for sure _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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Love My Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 1837
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Getting the A/C drain hoses connected up properly when hanging the cabinet. I finally cut a groove down from the top of the cabinet so I could accomplish it. |
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kamzcab86 Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008 Posts: 7915 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Biggest bloody knuckle PITA to replace on a Vanagon? |
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dixoncj wrote: |
My vote would have to be for the 2.1 (well, and the 1.9 for that matter) water pump. |
To date, my vote goes to the same component. Helped my dad replace the water pump on my 2.1 a couple of weeks ago... took two days. A lot of "stupid Germans and their stupid engineering!" in various iterations were muttered during the process, particularly when it came to reinstalling the pipes. _________________ ~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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