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DorianL Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2013 Posts: 717 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:43 am Post subject: How effective is Ghia heating? |
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Right - things are getting a bit nippy here.
How effective is stock Ghia cabin heating?
I've read people having toasty feet and others installing gas heaters.
I'd like to think that stock KG should be effective however there is only a mild amount of heat coming out of the channels and dash.
It never really dip too much under freezing here but I still don't think it will be comfortable when winter really sets in.
I'll be hunting for holes to plug this weekend, but as far as I can tell... no gaping ones that I know of.
So is it effective heating? If so, what should I be looking for to clean up its efficiency? |
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djway3474 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2011 Posts: 2576 Location: The Real NDK So Cal
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Well here in So Cal they are more than enough. BUT - If it gets below 50degF we think the world is ending and we don't go outside. |
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DorianL Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2013 Posts: 717 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:30 am Post subject: |
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djway3474 wrote: |
Well here in So Cal they are more than enough. BUT - If it gets below 50degF we think the world is ending and we don't go outside. |
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DorianL Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2013 Posts: 717 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:32 am Post subject: |
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http://www.vw-resource.com/heat4.html
Interesting. I'm quite sure there's no thermostat on mine and it can take a long while before the engine is hot. |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2493 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
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How effective is the heat in an air-cooled VW? Try to imagine a hamster breathing on your ankle...that'll give you a pretty good idea
If you want serious heat, get yourself a gas heater. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Altema Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2010 Posts: 2903 Location: Lower Michigan
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:37 am Post subject: |
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If everything is working as it should, then the stock system keeps the car nice and comfortable. I pickup my daughter from work around midnight, and she works in a refrigerated plant. Her usual comment when I ask if she's warm enough is "Toasty", and the Ghia heats up better than our 2002 Mercury villager.
The first downside is that it's difficult to control when you try and turn it down, with 90% of the control being in the first 10% of the lever movement. The second downside is that the amount of air coming though the system falls to a trickle when the engine is idling or at low RPM because it's driven by the engine fan. I fixed that by installing a bus blower which I can turn on to boost the flow, but I only bother to use that when it's way below freezing outside. On the positive side, the stock heating system uses no electricity, is silent, has one moving part (aside from the controls), and the heat is a deep and satisfying one.
The guide you referenced is a good one, but to pare it down to the basics you need:
Properly working thermostat and cooling flaps.
Properly working heater boxes and controls.
Heater channels that are not rusted out.
By the way, the thermostat will also let your engine run at a more consistent temperature and help it to last longer
Paul |
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KGCoupe Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005 Posts: 3580 Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Make sure you have the rubber boot installed around the two horns in the trunk, and that there are no rips or tears in it.
Otherwise that little round opening at the bottom center of the nose will act like a hood scoop and fill the trunk with fresh cold air that ultimately finds its way into the passenger's cabin through every small hole and gap in the dashboard.
I'm probably stating the obvious to you, but thought I'd mention it just in case your Ghia came from a warm climate before you bought it and perhaps the horn boot was missing. |
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-Zodiac- Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2014 Posts: 782 Location: Pensacola/milton, florida
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Lol reminds me of a story my dad told me, he and his buddy's were riding around in a ghia and his friend had his foot directly on the passenger side vent and cought his shoe on fire. While every one else remained cold. Stock heater should be alright if your journey is up hill I luckily live where it doesn't get "cold" exept for last year when everything froze _________________ 1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives. |
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BerneseMtnDog Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2014 Posts: 146 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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It's only been around 40 degrees F here so far this fall but the heater in mine works really nice. Blows warm air in about 3 miles of driving. Only complaint as said before is that it's hard to adjust from full on and it doesn't blow as much on the windshield as I would like. I wonder how many cars are driving around with rotten rockers and heater channels? I'm sure that must affect how it heats the cabin. When I was looking for a car I saw one that had terribly rusted rockers. So bad that the owner had laid some hose along the inside sills and used those as heater channels. Of course he assured me this was stock and normal.
Steve |
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danielsan Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2008 Posts: 802 Location: Carson City, NV
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: |
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I bought a rebuilt gas heater from Martin Allen:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9870
He helped me set it up, gave advice on how to increase safety and a year after buying he helped me get it set up for winter. The sort of person you want to buy from.
I spend lots of time on hills where the stock fan is moving much and the stock system has always sucked for the first 3 miles or so. Now I use both but the gas heater makes the first 10 minutes of the driver much nicer.
If I were to do it again I wouldn't worry about finding the original ghia plumbing -- now that I understand the system I realize that the elaborate plumbing was all about making sure that the heater does not sit on top of the brake lines. If you change to volvo style container on top of the master cylinder and you no longer need to worry about finding any of the impossible to find parts. |
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malley56 Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006 Posts: 255 Location: Martinsville, VA
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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Do you have the original heater boxes with the fins inside. If you have the cheapo aftermarket heater boxes they don't heat near as well.. |
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ccihon Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2012 Posts: 227 Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I purchased my car from a warm climate where heat was not a concern. I had to patch a variety of holes in the heater channels, fix the control cabling, reconnect the airflow to the heat exchangers. I have yet to re-add the hacked out thermostat flaps.
I think if everything is in good working order, the cars warm nearly as quickly as water-cooled cars, at speed. Trouble is, the years take a toll on all the parts need to get heat inside.
FWIW, my first car (one that I bought) was a 1975 carbureted VW Rabbit - liquid-cooled of course - heat sucked on that one too. Had to keep a scraper handy for the INSIDE of the windscreen! |
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sactojesse Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 2655 Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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IMO, the stock heating system works well down to around 25 degrees F (-4 degrees C), assuming you have all of the required parts, e.g., door seals, front trunk seal, horn boot seal, etc., necessary to optimize its operation. It tends to get the back of the driver and passenger seats really toasty, but does a poor job on the windshield and front footwell. When I lived in Washington state, I used to drive my former '69 ghia coupe up to the mountains to go skiing. I recall one particularly cold 9 degree F (-13 C) evening coming back down the mountain. _________________ 1966 Karmann-Ghia convertible |
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RHough Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2013 Posts: 299 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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A stock 1600 with a sorted heater is more that you ever need.
T-Stat is a must have. Single biggest improvement to the heating system.
After than it is just making sure all the hoses are in place and fit properly. |
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NOVA Airhead Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2005 Posts: 5221 Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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sactojesse wrote: |
IMO, the stock heating system works well down to around 25 degrees F (-4 degrees C), assuming you have all of the required parts, e.g., door seals, front trunk seal, horn boot seal, etc., necessary to optimize its operation. It tends to get the back of the driver and passenger seats really toasty, but does a poor job on the windshield and front footwell. When I lived in Washington state, I used to drive my former '69 ghia coupe up to the mountains to go skiing. I recall one particularly cold 9 degree F (-13 C) evening coming back down the mountain. |
I would agree with Sactojesse. Below 25 degrees it can get chilly, particularly if your speed is under 45 mph. I remember my dad having a brand new 1970 Beetle growing up in New York. The defroster was never really effective at low speeds and barely effective at higher speeds.
The other problem is the distribution of the air. The foot closest to the heat vent can be roasting while your hands may be numb. Driving gloves are a good idea when its cold.
I have a gas heater in my car but have not gotten it working yet. _________________ Ghia Owner Emeritus |
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CiderGuy Samba Member
Joined: December 23, 2013 Posts: 1351 Location: Bucks County, Pa
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I recall when at school in upstate New York buying a treated cloth at an auto store to deal with the fogged up windows on my 63 bug. It worked well.
Also remember using these "wings" which clipped onto the window wiper arms to cause downward force to make them work better. |
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olspeed Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2008 Posts: 489 Location: In the shadow of Denali, I still don't give a damn how they do it outside
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Stock heat works great when you can get the engine up to cruzing speed and stay there. I am still driving mine in to town to work here before it snows so the morning temps are below 20 in the 13-16'F range and after 20 miles the windows are clear and the car is warm the rest of the way. On the way home it's in the 45'f range so it's just a few miles and the car is comfy once again. _________________ 66- Ghia
76-Beetle |
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Volfandt Samba Member
Joined: March 15, 2012 Posts: 500 Location: Knox County, East TN
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: Heat |
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defrost is about non existent. Keep a good dry towel or rag handy. I've got one of those electric hand held heater/defrosters that plugs into an aux power socket, it really doesn't work as well as the towel/rag...
The rear heat outlet really puts out (compared to the other outlets) so I rigged up a PVC pipe that runs from the outlet under the rear seat, under the front seat and out the front of the seat edge and it puts that heat out to my legs and to a lesser extent my feet.
As said, once it drops below freezing the heat really lacks....
Dave _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia, the Dragon slayer.... |
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danielsan Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2008 Posts: 802 Location: Carson City, NV
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Asking if the vw heating system is adequate is bit like asking what oil to use. Everyone has good opinions and they are all different --
imo,
When the car is going and the fan is moving the system is fantastic. The rear vents will melt any plastic that you put hear them and you can burn your foot on the vent. So yeah, 45 on an open road 10 minutes into the drive -- great stuff. But if you are sitting at idle and/or the engine is still warming up -- hamster breath captures it pretty well.
Snow driving requires avoiding any sudden rise in RPMs -- when I get off work into my cold car and make my way through piles of snow I try find that sweet spot right above lugging the engine and right below spinning wheels I sometimes wish I had actually brought a hamster with me.
Old school accessory was an oil heater which allowed you to start with a warm engine but those are serious fire hazards.
bluedot put in electric heat. No details on performance yet. As I already said put in a gas heater -- still waiting for my Darwin award to arrive. Before that I used a ceramic heater an extension cord -- which worked at home but nowhere else. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22573 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Electric heat just won't work. A small space heater is rated at 500 watts, which is 40 amps on a 12 VDC system and 80 Amps on a 6 V.
You don't have a source of current this high on a Beetle. _________________ .ssS! |
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