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offshores Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2012 Posts: 1085 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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My 1st car was a ’67 Bug, then a ’66 13 window Bus, then a ’67 21 window, ’69 Baja, ’83 diesel Rabbit and a ’94 Jetta GLI 16v. I can tell you that I had no issues with any of my “death trap” VW’s. All the sketchy shit started with the Jetta. Speeds increased, tickets happened, accidents were almost daily, ya know, stupid shit that happens with speed. Most all the accidents I see, hear or read about (involving teens) are speed related and include fire and death. Wonder how many of those parents wished they had bought their kid an old VW instead??? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
bdub475 wrote: |
A daily driven vw will need a full day of maintenance once a month and it seams like something is always going wrong. |
I have to disagree with this statement. VW would of never of sold millions of these cars if they required a days worth of maintenance once a month.
The key to having a reliable old VW is to go thru it's systems upon purchase. Once you've checked all the systems and replaced worn parts, these cars can be very reliable. Changing the oil, adjusting the valves and checking the other systems shouldn't take more than an hour, every few months. |
I think the truth is somewhere in between. I have driven them daily both as a teen and as an adult with a 75 mile daily commute. When I was young I was always tinkering and fixing prior owner mistakes. When I was older and drive so far, it seemed like maintenance was about every two months and it took at least half a day.
Unless you restore with full replacement of things like wiring and mechanisms like turn signal switches, stuff WILL break due to age. If you can't be without the car then this is a problem. If you have an alternative or are good with making-do by the side of the road, you can get by.
But don't kid yourself-- these cars require regular maintenance and tinkering. If this is fun for you then it's no problem. If you can't spare the time or don't have the skills, then it can be a real nightmare.
I have no regrets driving them all those years and drove very safely, always watching out for the other guy and not taking routes where dangerous idiots tended to drive. |
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Jon Schmid Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012 Posts: 2034 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: I need help convicing my dad to get a bug |
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[quote="KTPhil"]
wcfvw69 wrote: |
bdub475 wrote: |
A daily driven vw will need a full day of maintenance once a month and it seams like something is always going wrong. |
not taking routes where dangerous idiots tended to drive. |
I guess if you live in SoCal that means not backing out of your driveway. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: I need help convicing my dad to get a bug |
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[quote="Jon Schmid"]
KTPhil wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
bdub475 wrote: |
A daily driven vw will need a full day of maintenance once a month and it seams like something is always going wrong. |
not taking routes where dangerous idiots tended to drive. |
I guess if you live in SoCal that means not backing out of your driveway. |
Pretty close!
I avoid large intersections with left turn lanes, freeway interchanges, blind narrow roads, and watch out for minivans exiting shopping centers. Lots of "density" there! |
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mikec4193 Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014 Posts: 287 Location: Mechanicville NY (Upstate)
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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If everybody drove vintage VW's...the crashing and bashing would not hurt nearly as much as it would today with everybody texting and driving all those huge 4 wheel drive SUV's and trucks too...
They are unsafe and they are death traps compared to what we drive now....gas tanks in the front..solid steering columns...no side impact safety either...etc etc etc...
I still love the looks of them...this thread has really got me to thinking how to make a vintage VW safer for daily driving...newer steering column...a race car type fuel cell in the car maybe??? roll cage too???
thanks everyone for posting all the thoughts...
MikeC _________________ Dad bought his first Beetle on Dec 17, 1953. |
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drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Why the heck would you want a beetle with a 3-1/2 foot back seat? Even if the girls will date you think about the advantage of the entire back of the Wagoneer!
The car doesn't make you cool, YOU make the car cool!
Do the Jeep. Learn what you are doing. When the time is right you can always make the switch. You have your whole life ahead of you unless you screw up. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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Flyinsquirrelman Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2014 Posts: 6 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: Yah |
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I've been looking on the classifieds on here and will probably save up (get a job hopefully) and buy a Junker bug or a squareback and fix it up my own way overtime. |
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61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Yah |
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Flyinsquirrelman wrote: |
I've been looking on the classifieds on here and will probably save up (get a job hopefully) and buy a Junker bug or a squareback and fix it up my own way overtime. |
This is a much better idea!
Been reading all the posts here, and I'm an old guy who has seen both ends of your situation.
I tend to be much more conservative now, and agree with the majority here that an old VW for practical reasons may not the best Daily Driver for a 15 YO...
...not on major US Highways anyway @ DeutchKraght
But, getting your feet wet with a weekend or Hobby car would be a great way to go. You can search the Classifieds here by your Zip code, so whether you want to drive 100 mile radius to unlimited in order to find a project is up to you.
Tip:
Late model Squarebacks can be bought cheap, but with fuel injection they can get expensive to keep up.
You might find an early pre-'68 model cheap, but it's probably going to need everything, and stuff for them is not cheap at all.
Stick with an early Beetle, '58-'67 like the forum says _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Jack square Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2014 Posts: 36 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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get a jusnker vw (squareback join the revolution of type 3 ) fix it a single mattris fits well in the back and is just big enough you know what i mean but ultimatly you make the car cool nobody had even heard of a square back in my schhol and everybody loves it now just rock what you have and it will be cool its what you make of it
ps hi have a 68 square (just visiting) and not every thing needs replacing earlys are deffintaly simpiler |
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youngnstudly Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2005 Posts: 833 Location: Whine Country (SF Bay area)
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Yah |
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Flyinsquirrelman wrote: |
I've been looking on the classifieds on here and will probably save up (get a job hopefully) and buy a Junker bug or a squareback and fix it up my own way overtime. |
Wise choice! No need to make your simple teenage life more complicated than it needs to be. You have all the time in the world to save up and buy the VW of your dreams. Fix it up, make it cool, and all the while, you get to drive your other car.
Plus there's a little satisfaction in driving a safer vehicle. When I got older and kept driving my Bug, my Dad would always laugh and tell me, "You drive whatever the hell you want to...But me? I prefer to know that if I die in some nasty car crash, I have a very good chance of taking the other guy out with me...unless he's driving a fully loaded dump truck...or a tank." Dad always has had a different way of looking at things. _________________ The economy is in a state of disaster, we have NO time for common sense! |
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Aynthm Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2010 Posts: 1314 Location: Beaverton, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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1. Do what DAD wants is first priority.
2. Read every single post on this forum to educate and prepare yourself.
3. Clean your room, take out the trash, rake the leaves (without being asked).
4. Use DAD's choice to get to and from your part time job while keeping your grades UP!
5. Take the money you've saved for 3 years and scout for a bug.
6. Now that you've gotten great grades, helped around the house, saved
some bucks, it's time to enlist DAD to help you pick one out since you've proven to him that you are knowledgeable, responsible, mature and have done the research. When he knows that you know as much about bugs as he does, you will not fail to impress him. |
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67jason Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2005 Posts: 4741 Location: behind my back feet - Pittsburg CA
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:20 am Post subject: |
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i got a decent 64 bug set aside for my kid...he is 13 now and the 64 will be his first car.
my first was a 68 fasty and have owned dozens of other acvw's over the years and haven't died yet. _________________ 67 bug x3
67 ghia
64 bug |
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rustfree1967bug Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2006 Posts: 3436 Location: minnesota
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:02 am Post subject: |
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I fell in love with vw's when i was about 12 or 13. Luckily my dad is also a car guy so he understood. He bought me a '67 bug from a junkyard for $50 just for me to mess around with and tear apart. Then when i was 16 and before i had my license i found a sweet '66 sunroof bug i just had to have. I had $25002 saved up and talked my parents into loaning me the rest of the money. I took my drivers test in that '66 and it was my nice weather dailly driver for the first year and a half of my driving. Then i bought a '70 beetle and that became my daily driver including a few mn winters. I just turned 22 and from the time i was 17 until now i have grown my collection to include a '74 bus, '87 syncro vanagon, '81 turbo diesel rabbit, '80 gas rabbit, '92 corrado slc and a '92 jetta for my winter car. I have owned a few others along the way but i am a vw guy all the way and always will be. I never got in any accidents with any of my cars and maybe i'm just lucky but i am glad i got the chance to have a aircooled vw as my first car. Also having a place to work on the car and the tools to do so are a major help as well. I am lucky my dad is a mechanic and we have a heated garage with a lift in it. _________________ '70 ghia
'69 ghia
'65 singlecab
'66 sunroof beetle
'74 bus
'67 so-42
IDA's...well... they talk dirty -MURZI |
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drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Yah |
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Flyinsquirrelman wrote: |
I've been looking on the classifieds on here and will probably save up (get a job hopefully) and buy a Junker bug or a squareback and fix it up my own way overtime. |
There are only a few issues with your plan.
First you are 15 and probably have no income to save yet. Once the driver’s license comes along and you start driving the jeep, being able to actually save money becomes more difficult if you are paying your own way on gas, insurance, and maintenance.
But the real issue comes with thinking about buying a junker and fixing it up. This idea usually comes from the fact that you can find a junker for very little money, but the reality is that sometimes even a FREE car can be very expensive.
Be patient, save your money, keep your eye on your goal, and look for something better then a junker. It may cost more going in, but if you can get in and turn the key and drive it away the joy of playing with it will always overcome the agony of working and funding the resurrection of a junker.
These cars are old and as such there will always be work which needs to be done. Just keeping them going can be a full time ordeal.
Get out a pad of paper and a pen and spend some time looking through catalogs, or here in the classifieds and start pricing parts. Write down the prices. This will give you a pretty good idea of what it will take money wise to get your junker going again. Plus it gives you a much better idea when looking at cars to buy of what it will cost to make any VW the way you want it.
Look at the prices of the simple and basic stuff. It’s usually the little things that end up costing you the most.
Price tires, or simply add up the cost of doing basic maintenance. What’s it cost to do a simple oil change and valve adjustment? You need tools, parts, and oil. Add on a set of spark plugs and maybe a set of plug wires. What about axle boots? And the tools you need to drain and fill the transmission along with a few quarts of gear oil.
Compare that with changing out the entire brake system on a junker. Master Cylinder, wheel cylinders, steel lines, flex lines, shoes, and maybe a new drum or two because the old ones are either rusted beyond being saved or just plain worn beyond being safely used.
Just keep in mind, in order to get a junker going you also need a place to work on it. In some places you can’t leave them sit outside or you get the zoning people all upset.
And you need a pretty good selection of tools to be able to work on them. So it’s a good idea while looking around to also start a VW Special tool list so you will know what you need to spend on tools to get your project completed.
Then once you have all that you need the time to be able to deal with it. And the most important thing is the skills to do it.
If any of these things are lacking, the chance of your project getting pushed aside and never completed by you are pretty good. Back yards, garages, storage units and junk yards all over the country are full of unfinished projects by people who got in over their head.
Also keep in mind that a project car can take years to complete even if you have everything to do it. A lot of people have life changes in that time that also derail projects.
Girlfriends come and go, new job opportunities come along, death in the family, change of family relationships, kids, loose your work place, etc., etc., etc. The list goes on and on for reasons projects never get finished.
For every completed project you see on the road or at a show, there are hundreds or thousands that will never be finished by the current owners.
For now, do what you need to do. Drive the Jeep. They are ALL machines! And the Jeep also has a lot to teach you that will be very valuable latter when you make the move to a VW. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. This thread is really depressing. I drove a bug in high school. And I drove another bug thru college. I never fixed anything on either one of them. Except the accelerator cable. I was young and dumb. In fact I paid for part of my college with insurance money from the bug being crashed into and dented pretty bad. That was back when you could take the repair or the money. I always took the money. $1200 back then was alot of cash for tuition, rent, food etc. etc. And the bug just kept going anyway.
Now I had a close friend in HS that wrecked his bug and was never the same from head injury. But he was also a "racer". Not an actual racer. But one of those kids that could fix anything so he built himself a way to fast baja bug. And rolled it on some gravel one afternoon. Going around a corner way to fast. And that was the end of that story.
But still. I never drove like a sh*thead. And was in more than one decent wreck. And I feel like my bugs were the most economical cars I ever owned. I used to drive home on a quarter tank of gas. Get a couple 5 gallon gas cans from my grandpa. And put them in the front trunk. And that would do me all week long. (Ya. Pretty stupid to carry around gas cans in the front of bug. But like I said. I was young and dumb.)
But let the kid have his bug. If he's been raised well. And understands the dangers. Give him a list to convince his Dad. He can be killed in just about anything he drives. You could at least give him the information. And let his Dad decide. |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. This thread is really depressing. I drove a bug in high school. And I drove another bug thru college. I never fixed anything on either one of them. Except the accelerator cable. I was young and dumb. In fact I paid for part of my college with insurance money from the bug being crashed into and dented pretty bad. That was back when you could take the repair or the money. I always took the money. $1200 back then was alot of cash for tuition, rent, food etc. etc. And the bug just kept going anyway.
Now I had a close friend in HS that wrecked his bug and was never the same from head injury. But he was also a "racer". Not an actual racer. But one of those kids that could fix anything so he built himself a way to fast baja bug. And rolled it on some gravel one afternoon. Going around a corner way to fast. And that was the end of that story.
But still. I never drove like a sh*thead. And was in more than one decent wreck. And I feel like my bugs were the most economical cars I ever owned. I used to drive home on a quarter tank of gas. Get a couple 5 gallon gas cans from my grandpa. And put them in the front trunk. And that would do me all week long. (Ya. Pretty stupid to carry around gas cans in the front of bug. But like I said. I was young and dumb.)
But let the kid have his bug. If he's been raised well. And understands the dangers. Give him a list to convince his Dad. He can be killed in just about anything he drives. You could at least give him the information. And let his Dad decide.
Not to mention. How are you going to get younger folks into the VW scene? Or are you just going to let it die out? You can't get new people into bugs by basically saying they are an untrustworthy deathtrap. They have good points too.
I'll start the list:
1) Good gas mileage.
2) Easier to find parts than alot of older cars. Cause so many were made. And there are alot of aftermarket parts. Or so it seems to me.
3) No smog.
4) Easy to fix. I mean damn. An engine comes out in a couple hours.
5) I find them to be terribly reliable. At least in my limited experience in high school and college.
Who's next? Throw something positive out there. Sheesh. You guys all sound like crotchity old men! |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. This thread is really depressing. I drove a bug in high school. And I drove another bug thru college. I never fixed anything on either one of them. Except the accelerator cable. I was young and dumb. In fact I paid for part of my college with insurance money from the bug being crashed into and dented pretty bad. That was back when you could take the repair or the money. I always took the money. $1200 back then was alot of cash for tuition, rent, food etc. etc. And the bug just kept going anyway.
Now I had a close friend in HS that wrecked his bug and was never the same from head injury. But he was also a "racer". Not an actual racer. But one of those kids that could fix anything so he built himself a way to fast baja bug. And rolled it on some gravel one afternoon. Going around a corner way to fast. And that was the end of that story.
But still. I never drove like a sh*thead. And was in more than one decent wreck. And I feel like my bugs were the most economical cars I ever owned. I used to drive home on a quarter tank of gas. Get a couple 5 gallon gas cans from my grandpa. And put them in the front trunk. And that would do me all week long. (Ya. Pretty stupid to carry around gas cans in the front of bug. But like I said. I was young and dumb.)
But let the kid have his bug. If he's been raised well. And understands the dangers. Give him a list to convince his Dad. He can be killed in just about anything he drives. You could at least give him the information. And let his Dad decide.
Not to mention. How are you going to get younger folks into the VW scene? Or are you just going to let it die out? You can't get new people into bugs by basically saying they are an untrustworthy deathtrap. They have good points too.
I'll start the list:
1) Good gas mileage.
2) Easier to find parts than alot of older cars. Cause so many were made. And there are alot of aftermarket parts. Or so it seems to me.
3) No smog.
4) Easy to fix. I mean damn. An engine comes out in a couple hours.
5) I find them to be terribly reliable. At least in my limited experience in high school and college.
Who's next? Throw something positive out there. Sheesh. You guys all sound like crotchity old men! |
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moab762 Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014 Posts: 518 Location: El Segundo, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Wow. This thread is really depressing. I drove a bug in high school. And I drove another bug thru college. I never fixed anything on either one of them. Except the accelerator cable. I was young and dumb. In fact I paid for part of my college with insurance money from the bug being crashed into and dented pretty bad. That was back when you could take the repair or the money. I always took the money. $1200 back then was alot of cash for tuition, rent, food etc. etc. And the bug just kept going anyway.
Now I had a close friend in HS that wrecked his bug and was never the same from head injury. But he was also a "racer". Not an actual racer. But one of those kids that could fix anything so he built himself a way to fast baja bug. And rolled it on some gravel one afternoon. Going around a corner way to fast. And that was the end of that story.
But still. I never drove like a sh*thead. And was in more than one decent wreck. And I feel like my bugs were the most economical cars I ever owned. I used to drive home on a quarter tank of gas. Get a couple 5 gallon gas cans from my grandpa. And put them in the front trunk. And that would do me all week long. (Ya. Pretty stupid to carry around gas cans in the front of bug. But like I said. I was young and dumb.)
But let the kid have his bug. If he's been raised well. And understands the dangers. Give him a list to convince his Dad. He can be killed in just about anything he drives. You could at least give him the information. And let his Dad decide.
Not to mention. How are you going to get younger folks into the VW scene? Or are you just going to let it die out? You can't get new people into bugs by basically saying they are an untrustworthy deathtrap. They have good points too.
I'll start the list:
1) Good gas mileage.
2) Easier to find parts than alot of older cars. Cause so many were made. And there are alot of aftermarket parts. Or so it seems to me.
3) No smog.
4) Easy to fix. I mean damn. An engine comes out in a couple hours.
5) I find them to be terribly reliable. At least in my limited experience in high school and college.
Who's next? Throw something positive out there. Sheesh. You guys all sound like crotchity old men! Not that we aren't. But... |
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Volktales Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2013 Posts: 545 Location: Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I will be going through the same thing relatively soon. My kid is 13 and is talking about what he wants for his first car. My first car was a 1970 Beetle in 1985, just another average 15 year old cheap car. No one cared about airbags and safety features in those days. I drove that car through 17 Canadian winters and given that I looked after it, reliability was not an issue. Soooooo, do I think his first car should be an old VW? Probably not for safety reasons. I did dumb things when I was 16 and avoided serious accidents probably due to luck more than skills. We didn't have to contend with every second vehicle being a hulking SUV with a distracted driver behind the wheel playing with their phone, either. Wifey says his first car MUST have airbags, so no vintage VW's then. He can drive mine when he gets some driving experience and use the VW for special occasions. I know I am much more paranoid when driving the VW so that might not be a bad thing in terms of accident avoidance... Anyway my kid doesn't want an old VW as a daily driver anyway. He has his eye on my 20 year old, 400,000km Civic SI as his first car. This opens up a lot of other worries for me...
To the original poster, use that Jeep as your daily, get a Beetle later on when you can afford a second car... _________________ 1974 "Restfalia" Camper 2000 cc EFI 2001-
1970 Beetle first car, rotten, yard art 1985-
1966 Sunroof Beetle, restored 1998-
1964 Ghia, ongoing project 2007-
1962 Beetle Beryl,original paint survivor 2012-
1970 Savannah Beige Beetle 2012-
1992 16v GTI, 100% stock 2006-
1991 "Terseo", wife's old daily 1995-
1969 Chevrolet CST/10 (family owned since new)
1965 Gold Corvair Monza 2021-
1966 and 1965 Monza 2022- |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13385 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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An interesting side note to this debate. I've read that the average American vehicle (cars, light trucks, sports utilities) weighed in at near 4060 lbs back in 1976. Today, the average car weight is right near 4000lbs after dropping off to around 3100-3200lbs in the late 70's and early 80's.
So, technically, all of us driving our old VW's are surrounded by the same size vehicles (weight wise, on average) as the drivers of new VW's back in the 70's. YES, there are MANY more trucks and SUV's on the road today but there were also many, many 60's and 70's land yachts that weighed 6000lbs plus back then as well. Obviously, the drivers in the 60's and 70's didn't have all the distractions (cell phones, texting, etc) like drivers today.
Trust me, I'm NOT suggesting any young driver should have an old VW as a first car like many of us did. It was just interesting to see the difference in what we navigate thru in todays traffic vs. the 60's or 70's. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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