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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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 Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: |
| The boost control, nitrous control and water/meth control are all dedicated PWM outputs. |
I could co-opt any of them if they are programmable via a MAPxRPM table.
Is the frequency of the PWM output configurable or fixed?
The CANbus isn't a deal-killer, but it would be nice to not piggy-back existing (or run duplicate) sensors.
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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Eaallred
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm assuming this unit will tune "while you drive" without having a laptop connected? This has always been my gripe with MegaSquirt. It seems to do everything BUT that.
If it were possible to add an A/F safety shutdown like I have on my MegaSquirt, i'd be VERY interested in trying it out on the rail.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: |
I'm assuming this unit will tune "while you drive" without having a laptop connected? This has always been my gripe with MegaSquirt. It seems to do everything BUT that.
If it were possible to add an A/F safety shutdown like I have on my MegaSquirt, i'd be VERY interested in trying it out on the rail. |
We have already incorporated a lean shut down feature into the firmware but it is only fuel. I am going to update it with RPM and or fuel shut down with more parameters, right now it is only cutting fuel based on AFR, egt and over boost.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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Eaallred
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Killa'
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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itHaKa
Samba Member
Joined: February 20, 2008
Posts: 254
Location: Argentina
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| itHaKa wrote: |
will the ignition include cylinder knock control ?
perhaps retard each cylinder like Safeguard ? |
We have the capability of running 2 knock sensors. Where are people installing the knock sensors on an air cooled engine? Years ago, I tried them all over the place and had little luck making them function correctly.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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DerrickfromNC1
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 1302
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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The big question for me is, is auto tune really auto tune???
I ask because I think besides the cost most of us shy away from going efi is because of the complexity, and do I have the skills to make it work? I have a Autronic SMC efi still in the box collecting dust because I don't know what I'm doing.
I've built several performance street engine and currently have a 2332 in my 67 sedan with 45 dells that runs clean and cool, idles smoothly and pulls strongly to 7000rpm w/o a hiccup, so I like to think I have some skills.
Yes I can mount the efi box, install the throttle bodies, harness, modify fuel system, connect laptop & startup program based on user prompts.
So back to my question once done...is autotune really autotune while I drive?
Do I have to populate some kind of ignition and fuel tables or does it really do this while I drive?
Thanks |
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Jzsquared
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2014
Posts: 218
Location: West of Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| DerrickfromNC1 wrote: |
The big question for me is, is auto tune really auto tune???
I ask because I think besides the cost most of us shy away from going efi is because of the complexity, and do I have the skills to make it work? I have a Autronic SMC efi still in the box collecting dust because I don't know what I'm doing.
I've built several performance street engine and currently have a 2332 in my 67 sedan with 45 dells that runs clean and cool, idles smoothly and pulls strongly to 7000rpm w/o a hiccup, so I like to think I have some skills.
Yes I can mount the efi box, install the throttle bodies, harness, modify fuel system, connect laptop & startup program based on user prompts.
So back to my question once done...is autotune really autotune while I drive?
Do I have to populate some kind of ignition and fuel tables or does it really do this while I drive?
Thanks |
I would like to know this as well |
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miniman82
Samba Swamp Donkey
Joined: March 22, 2005
Posts: 9515
Location: Southern Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| DerrickfromNC1 wrote: |
| I like to think I have some skills (with carbs). Do I have to populate some kind of ignition and fuel tables or does it really do this while I drive? |
Is it reasonable to expect that a set of carbs will work on any engine straight out of the box, without changing a single jet? If not, then it's also unreasonable to assume that you can run a fuel injection system without making some changes to the fuel and ignition maps. O2 feedback will greatly ease the setting up of the fuel map, but to my knowledge ignition timing has always been user defined.
But since you say you're good with carbs, I really don't see your issue with having to learn how to interpret a timing or fuel table. Why get off your duff and figure it out? There's only one person stopping you...
I think that once most people actually get some experience with FI tuning, they realize that it's not such a big hassle. You'll wonder what took you so long to actually play with it, then you won't be able to STOP playing with it! 
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Build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212747
| Glenn wrote: |
| satterley_sr wrote: |
I just wanted to bitch but I'm getting no sympathy. |
Welcome to the Samba. |
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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It seems that every efi company has jumped on the "auto tune" band wagon. Yes, it is a novel idea to install an efi kit and just drive off into the sunset but in reality, it's far from possible.
Auto tune is a great feature when done the correct way. I think we have done it about as perfect as can be done in the Gen-4 ecu.
Most efi systems on the market that incorporate auto tune use a condensed table for the learn limits, learn target afr, and learn cells. The issue with this is it leaves rich and lean holes in your fuel table.
What we did on the Gen-4 was use the same learn table, learn limits, target AFR as our fuel table, 20x20. We also incorporated interpolation in the learn table. By doing all of this, we created an extremely fluid afr throughout the fuel table with learning enabled.
But, I will say this, Learning should only be enabled AFTER you have tuned your fuel table. If you think you can buy an efi kit, install it and the world is beautiful, your wrong. No matter who makes the efi system, it has to be tuned manually, at least to a point, and then allow learning to perfect a fuel table you tuned to the best of your capability.
I haven't even gone into cold start enrichment, acceleration enrichment, spark table, the list goes on and on. Sure we can load a file into the Gen-4 ecu that is as close as we think possible but I guarantee you it's not perfect. It will get you running but be prepared to tune it.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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Steve Arndt
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2005
Posts: 1780
Location: Boise, Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: |
| itHaKa wrote: |
will the ignition include cylinder knock control ?
perhaps retard each cylinder like Safeguard ? |
We have the capability of running 2 knock sensors. Where are people installing the knock sensors on an air cooled engine? Years ago, I tried them all over the place and had little luck making them function correctly. |
With a single sensor J&S setup I have my sensor bolted to the center of the block as shown here.
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Eaallred
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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That's where I mounted mine as well. I found with my HP engine, it worked with a fresh valve adjust and cruising around town. WOT or if the engine got hot, no dice.
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Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
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Blake R
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2006
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| I am very new to efi. So sorry if this as a dumb question. But I see it has 4 ignition outputs. Does this mean you could run coil on/ near plug? Maybe using lsx truck or car coils? And be able to run sequential spark? Whatdo you guys have planed for an off the shelf wire harness? |
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Blake R wrote: |
| I am very new to efi. So sorry if this as a dumb question. But I see it has 4 ignition outputs. Does this mean you could run coil on/ near plug? Maybe using lsx truck or car coils? And be able to run sequential spark? Whatdo you guys have planed for an off the shelf wire harness? |
You can run coil on plug, coil near plug or a coil pack and have full sequential timing, it will require a cam synch though. Our ecu will fire smart or dumb coils so yes, LS-2 truck coils is no problem.
We will offer a dedicated harness for either a coil pack or single coil. It will have connections for idle air control, fuel pressure, head temp, air temp, tps, and a single wide band 02 and a couple outputs as "standard". There will be an option for a second harness that we will custom make for whatever additional sensors you want, egt's additional wide bands, additional coils, water meth, nitrous, etc. Cost will be dependent on what additional items you want.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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yammi450
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2005
Posts: 149
Location: Las Vegas,Nv
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Pat D wrote: |
I haven't even gone into cold start enrichment, acceleration enrichment, spark table, the list goes on and on. Sure we can load a file into the Gen-4 ecu that is as close as we think possible but I guarantee you it's not perfect. It will get you running but be prepared to tune it. |
Has the acceleration enrichment improved or is it the same as the previous generation? (Magna fuel and spark) |
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thmupr
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2007
Posts: 4
Location: North Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: Availability |
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| So when is the Gen 4 going to be released? Has the price been set yet for it? |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Availability |
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| thmupr wrote: |
| So when is the Gen 4 going to be released? Has the price been set yet for it? |
Mark yold me yesterday when i asked. May 11th. There were things that they were weaning out to make perfect. Im assuming the same price Pat specified will be the going sales price. The 2094 crank fire kit was a cinch to install m, i hope the same for the 7075.
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2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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DRED fr
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Normandie France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:38 am Post subject: Re: CB Gen#4 EFI |
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Hello Pat and all,
Post here to share info. The gen4EFI seems to be a very nice product, i like it.
How does it deal with e85. It's specify that gen4 is e85 compatible but no info about sensor input or specifics tables in the soft ? Is there specific fuel/ignition/boost/AFR target tables and interpolation regarding to the ethanol ratio read by a sensor, is it a real flex-fuel application?
Thanks
Regards |
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DRED fr
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Normandie France
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: CB Gen#4 EFI |
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Hello,
Up!
Nobody have more info on the Gen4EFI? I tried to contact Pat but no answer..
Thanks |
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Pat D
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Re: CB Gen#4 EFI |
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| DRED fr wrote: |
Hello,
Up!
Nobody have more info on the Gen4EFI? I tried to contact Pat but no answer..
Thanks |
The Gen-4 works perfectly fine with E85 fuel. We did not incorporate an ethanol sensor into the software so if you are switching between two different fuels, you will need to load the appropriate map.
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Pat, Im too fast slow me downs! |
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