Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Help me pick apart my '54 engine please
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - Oval-Window - 1953-57 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Help me pick apart my '54 engine please Reply with quote

In light of there being days of information to go through, I was hoping the wealth of knowledge that the members here have could pick apart my engine components and help me get the right parts to restore it back to original. Photos of the correct part, even part numbers would be very much appreciated!!

My long block is being sent for rebuild tomorrow and I am having components powder coated so I am diving head first into trying to get this engine back together correctly. Thanks in advance for any input!

Some background - my engine appears to have been rebuilt with a lot of 56-58 vintage parts. It is an early Feb of '54 car. The serial number on the engine indicates it is likely a replacement case, but I am using it anyway since I'll never have the exact engine that originally came with the car. The date code on it is 20 - 4 - 20, and am unsure when it was produced as it doesn't make sense to me. the serial number on the engine is missing the "1-" in front, but I have heard that in some instances this is ok?

I am already aware that:

Incorrect:
Fuel pump is incorrect
Lower pulley is incorrect
Lower pulley nut is incorrect
Small nut on generator is incorrect (does Porsche make a 36mm nut for me to purchase? Part number?)
Regulator is incorrect
Bracket on the coil is incorrect
Oil filler is incorrect

Correct:
The single strap air cleaner is correct

Unsure:
Generator?
Generator pulleys?
Intake manifold? I know the 54 should have the uterus manifold but wonder since my 54 is so early that the 53 style was used?
Distributor?
Engine tin with only 2 holes?
Vacuum advance?
Carburator?
Coil?
Heater shoes?
Anything else?

I have lots of photos so if more photos are needed, just ask.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a better photo of the generator pulley.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Volumex
Samba Member


Joined: October 11, 2007
Posts: 532
Location: Sarnia, ON
Volumex is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The generator and distributor will have date codes - check the sticky for how to decode them. Edit: found it http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505
Your dizzy will be wrong though - I think you need a BR3. They are a bit scarce. I've got a couple back in storage in Australia, but I'm in your neck of the woods for the next few years.
I'll leave it for others to sort out the rest (i.e. I have no idea)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volumex wrote:
The generator and distributor will have date codes - check the sticky for how to decode them. Edit: found it http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505
Your dizzy will be wrong though - I think you need a BR3. They are a bit scarce. I've got a couple back in storage in Australia, but I'm in your neck of the woods for the next few years.
I'll leave it for others to sort out the rest (i.e. I have no idea)


Thanks for the reply and the link. I'll go check out the generator for more info. Not sure where the numeric/alpha digit I'm looking for will be located; I'm assuming it's Bosch.

Call me inexperienced but I do not know what you mean when you say 'dizzy'. I have lots to learn.
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3foldfolly wrote:
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow.


Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links.
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
belairman
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2010
Posts: 399

belairman is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
3foldfolly wrote:
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow.


Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links.


PM sent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
belairman
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2010
Posts: 399

belairman is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
3foldfolly wrote:
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow.


Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links.


PM sent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
nlorntson
Crazy VW Lady


Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3783
Location: Twin Cities, MN
nlorntson is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dizzy = distributor

Do check out this thread if you haven't already. All your answers are probably found there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not an expert by any means but my opinion would be that this is a later engine that was installed in a slightly earlier car. Would this engine when rebuilt give the driver the same experience as the original? Definitely yes. Would it be considered correct for a concourse or "correct" restoration? Well, no. If it's really important to you then you will need to find a correct date, mostly complete core and proceed from there. I think it comes down to a matter of time and money. It's sort of a matter of what's the most important thing to you. I'm still looking for the correct fuel pump and coil for my engine but nobody seems to notice the discrepancy but me. It still makes that wonderful 36hp whirring noise!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is the late 54-55 generator pulley stuff. Most 54s appear to have been the same except the rear facing pulley does not have the deep recess.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=529648
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3foldfolly wrote:
I think this is the late 54-55 generator pulley stuff. Most 54s appear to have been the same except the rear facing pulley does not have the deep recess.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=529648

Thank you - this helps immensely.
I know this car had the engine rebuilt but it's beginning more and more to look like a newer engine was put in as more stuff is incorrect than not. I am aiming to put the correct pieces on so it looks correct.
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69820
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post a photo of the engine #.
It should absolutely have a -1- prefix on it.
Date code 20 - 4 - 20 is:
20th day of 4th month, 2nd shift 1960

I would guess it has a solid oil drain plug stamping on the bottom so you have to drain the oil through the large oil filter drain plate - this is a sure sign of a later case. Early cases has a separate drain bolt drilled into that stamping.

Carb. should be the one without a 28 PCI marking - it looks the same, just no markings.
Generator should be L13 if I remember right - check date code you will see you have a later generator.
Regulator you want a round regulator.
Engine cylinder tin should be the 3-hole tin
I believe those heater boxes are the late 57-60 boxes - check gallery or the 54-55 thread for pics.
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
Post a photo of the engine #.
It should absolutely have a -1- prefix on it.
Date code 20 - 4 - 20 is:
20th day of 4th month, 2nd shift 1960

I would guess it has a solid oil drain plug stamping on the bottom so you have to drain the oil through the large oil filter drain plate - this is a sure sign of a later case. Early cases has a separate drain bolt drilled into that stamping.

Carb. should be the one without a 28 PCI marking - it looks the same, just no markings.
Generator should be L13 if I remember right - check date code you will see you have a later generator.
Regulator you want a round regulator.
Engine cylinder tin should be the 3-hole tin
I believe those heater boxes are the late 57-60 boxes - check gallery or the 54-55 thread for pics.


Thank you!
Engine number is 0730261.
I know I need a round regulator.
I figured tin should have 3 holes.

I will use the parts I have until I find the correct pieces, as I know that finding the correct parts will be expensive and time consuming.

If only the car could talk and tell me what happened to the original engine. I had a basic understanding of the date codes but I had figured it was 1950 so was confused. Makes more sense it's from 1960.
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
3foldfolly
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 894
Location: Edwardsville, Il
3foldfolly is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charmaine's54 wrote:
3foldfolly wrote:
I think this is the late 54-55 generator pulley stuff. Most 54s appear to have been the same except the rear facing pulley does not have the deep recess.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=529648

Thank you - this helps immensely.
I know this car had the engine rebuilt but it's beginning more and more to look like a newer engine was put in as more stuff is incorrect than not. I am aiming to put the correct pieces on so it looks correct.

Well then I would be most concerned with what's visible when opening the engine lid. The upper and lower pulleys, round regulator, the wavy top fuel pump , the early cylinder head tins and oil filler housing. You're lucky to have the strap air filter. I think this car should probably have the distributer with the wire clips for the cap hold down. As an alternative you could get an 010. or 019. and call it a hot rod. Smile
I think your affinity for originality is going to serve this car well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tasb
The Distributor Distributor


Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
tasb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first 1954 distributor was the VJU 4 BR 2 it was only produced from December 1953 until sometime in January 1954. Then the VJU 4 BR 3 was used from January 1954 until August 1954 when the VJ 4 BR 8 came into production until 1960 model year end.
_________________
Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the info coming, I really appreciate it.

Anyone have a link to transmission numbers for dating?
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
henry roberts
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1275
Location: australia
henry roberts is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for trans dates look in the FAQ at the top of the index in this forum, they are in the same list as the engine/chassis numbers.

with your cylinder tin, does it have separate pressed bits for the humps above the head nuts? if so you might be able to fake the funk and add the 3rd holes yourself... just tell everyone some crazy story of the lengths you had to go to to get them, them giggle to yourself. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TheLadyBug
Samba Member


Joined: August 17, 2014
Posts: 639
Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
TheLadyBug is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

henry roberts wrote:
for trans dates look in the FAQ at the top of the index in this forum, they are in the same list as the engine/chassis numbers.

with your cylinder tin, does it have separate pressed bits for the humps above the head nuts? if so you might be able to fake the funk and add the 3rd holes yourself... just tell everyone some crazy story of the lengths you had to go to to get them, them giggle to yourself. Laughing


I'll have to look more closely at the tins... I recall reading just what you're talking about but that 54-55 engine thread is so overwhelming I totally forgot.

And yes I'll go check the numbers on the tranny, I was not functioning at optimum capacity at 1am last night Wink didn't think transmissions were listed there. I assume rear axle is the transmission number?
_________________
Charmaine
-------------
1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
motofly196
Samba Member


Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1467
Location: Eastern WA
motofly196 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Samba, there are only a select few that REALLY know what they are looking for on early 36hp engines. The "What's correct 54-55 engine" thread has really helped alot of us in finding the right parts. But, in my experience at shows...there aren't too many who know what they are looking for on a 36hp engine. Most just walk right on past the 36hp cars, and look at the big chrome engines at the show.
Finding the correct parts right now will break the bank (you're gonna cry when you see the prices for the parts you're missing). I would use what you've got, and just keep an eye out at swaps for the correct parts. I find most of my early engine parts at the bottom of boxes of the forgotten 36hp stash at swap meets. Laughing (For cheap or next to nothing) and from friends that know what I'm looking for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - Oval-Window - 1953-57 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.