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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: Help me pick apart my '54 engine please |
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In light of there being days of information to go through, I was hoping the wealth of knowledge that the members here have could pick apart my engine components and help me get the right parts to restore it back to original. Photos of the correct part, even part numbers would be very much appreciated!!
My long block is being sent for rebuild tomorrow and I am having components powder coated so I am diving head first into trying to get this engine back together correctly. Thanks in advance for any input!
Some background - my engine appears to have been rebuilt with a lot of 56-58 vintage parts. It is an early Feb of '54 car. The serial number on the engine indicates it is likely a replacement case, but I am using it anyway since I'll never have the exact engine that originally came with the car. The date code on it is 20 - 4 - 20, and am unsure when it was produced as it doesn't make sense to me. the serial number on the engine is missing the "1-" in front, but I have heard that in some instances this is ok?
I am already aware that:
Incorrect:
Fuel pump is incorrect
Lower pulley is incorrect
Lower pulley nut is incorrect
Small nut on generator is incorrect (does Porsche make a 36mm nut for me to purchase? Part number?)
Regulator is incorrect
Bracket on the coil is incorrect
Oil filler is incorrect
Correct:
The single strap air cleaner is correct
Unsure:
Generator?
Generator pulleys?
Intake manifold? I know the 54 should have the uterus manifold but wonder since my 54 is so early that the 53 style was used?
Distributor?
Engine tin with only 2 holes?
Vacuum advance?
Carburator?
Coil?
Heater shoes?
Anything else?
I have lots of photos so if more photos are needed, just ask.
_________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a better photo of the generator pulley.
_________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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Volumex Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2007 Posts: 532 Location: Sarnia, ON
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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The generator and distributor will have date codes - check the sticky for how to decode them. Edit: found it http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505
Your dizzy will be wrong though - I think you need a BR3. They are a bit scarce. I've got a couple back in storage in Australia, but I'm in your neck of the woods for the next few years.
I'll leave it for others to sort out the rest (i.e. I have no idea) |
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Volumex wrote: |
The generator and distributor will have date codes - check the sticky for how to decode them. Edit: found it http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505
Your dizzy will be wrong though - I think you need a BR3. They are a bit scarce. I've got a couple back in storage in Australia, but I'm in your neck of the woods for the next few years.
I'll leave it for others to sort out the rest (i.e. I have no idea) |
Thanks for the reply and the link. I'll go check out the generator for more info. Not sure where the numeric/alpha digit I'm looking for will be located; I'm assuming it's Bosch.
Call me inexperienced but I do not know what you mean when you say 'dizzy'. I have lots to learn. _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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3foldfolly Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 894 Location: Edwardsville, Il
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow. |
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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3foldfolly wrote: |
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow. |
Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links. _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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belairman Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2010 Posts: 399
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Charmaine's54 wrote: |
3foldfolly wrote: |
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow. |
Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links. |
PM sent |
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belairman Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2010 Posts: 399
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Charmaine's54 wrote: |
3foldfolly wrote: |
The fan shroud looks later to me, should not have the wiring tab on the left side under the coil mount. Generator pulley is 56 or later style. I think most of the information you are looking for can be found in this thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179439 Most of this early oval 36hp (54-55) stuff can be hard to find and rather pricey compared to the later stuff. It can take some time and vigilance watching the classifieds to round up. I would try and get all the correct sheet metal prior to powder coating. The bolt on stuff (i.e. gen pulley, coil and bracket, fuel pump etc.) is easy enough to change later when funds or availability allow. |
Other than the fan shroud, what else is incorrect?
I've read the 54 what's correct thread and some of it is hard to wade through cause it's so long and a lot of banter back and forth, as well as dead links. |
PM sent |
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nlorntson Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004 Posts: 3783 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Dizzy = distributor
Do check out this thread if you haven't already. All your answers are probably found there. |
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3foldfolly Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 894 Location: Edwardsville, Il
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I am not an expert by any means but my opinion would be that this is a later engine that was installed in a slightly earlier car. Would this engine when rebuilt give the driver the same experience as the original? Definitely yes. Would it be considered correct for a concourse or "correct" restoration? Well, no. If it's really important to you then you will need to find a correct date, mostly complete core and proceed from there. I think it comes down to a matter of time and money. It's sort of a matter of what's the most important thing to you. I'm still looking for the correct fuel pump and coil for my engine but nobody seems to notice the discrepancy but me. It still makes that wonderful 36hp whirring noise! |
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3foldfolly Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 894 Location: Edwardsville, Il
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you - this helps immensely.
I know this car had the engine rebuilt but it's beginning more and more to look like a newer engine was put in as more stuff is incorrect than not. I am aiming to put the correct pieces on so it looks correct. _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Post a photo of the engine #.
It should absolutely have a -1- prefix on it.
Date code 20 - 4 - 20 is:
20th day of 4th month, 2nd shift 1960
I would guess it has a solid oil drain plug stamping on the bottom so you have to drain the oil through the large oil filter drain plate - this is a sure sign of a later case. Early cases has a separate drain bolt drilled into that stamping.
Carb. should be the one without a 28 PCI marking - it looks the same, just no markings.
Generator should be L13 if I remember right - check date code you will see you have a later generator.
Regulator you want a round regulator.
Engine cylinder tin should be the 3-hole tin
I believe those heater boxes are the late 57-60 boxes - check gallery or the 54-55 thread for pics. _________________ How to Post Photos
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
Post a photo of the engine #.
It should absolutely have a -1- prefix on it.
Date code 20 - 4 - 20 is:
20th day of 4th month, 2nd shift 1960
I would guess it has a solid oil drain plug stamping on the bottom so you have to drain the oil through the large oil filter drain plate - this is a sure sign of a later case. Early cases has a separate drain bolt drilled into that stamping.
Carb. should be the one without a 28 PCI marking - it looks the same, just no markings.
Generator should be L13 if I remember right - check date code you will see you have a later generator.
Regulator you want a round regulator.
Engine cylinder tin should be the 3-hole tin
I believe those heater boxes are the late 57-60 boxes - check gallery or the 54-55 thread for pics. |
Thank you!
Engine number is 0730261.
I know I need a round regulator.
I figured tin should have 3 holes.
I will use the parts I have until I find the correct pieces, as I know that finding the correct parts will be expensive and time consuming.
If only the car could talk and tell me what happened to the original engine. I had a basic understanding of the date codes but I had figured it was 1950 so was confused. Makes more sense it's from 1960. _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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3foldfolly Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2009 Posts: 894 Location: Edwardsville, Il
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Charmaine's54 wrote: |
Thank you - this helps immensely.
I know this car had the engine rebuilt but it's beginning more and more to look like a newer engine was put in as more stuff is incorrect than not. I am aiming to put the correct pieces on so it looks correct. |
Well then I would be most concerned with what's visible when opening the engine lid. The upper and lower pulleys, round regulator, the wavy top fuel pump , the early cylinder head tins and oil filler housing. You're lucky to have the strap air filter. I think this car should probably have the distributer with the wire clips for the cap hold down. As an alternative you could get an 010. or 019. and call it a hot rod.
I think your affinity for originality is going to serve this car well. |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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The first 1954 distributor was the VJU 4 BR 2 it was only produced from December 1953 until sometime in January 1954. Then the VJU 4 BR 3 was used from January 1954 until August 1954 when the VJ 4 BR 8 came into production until 1960 model year end. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Keep the info coming, I really appreciate it.
Anyone have a link to transmission numbers for dating? _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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henry roberts Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003 Posts: 1275 Location: australia
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
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for trans dates look in the FAQ at the top of the index in this forum, they are in the same list as the engine/chassis numbers.
with your cylinder tin, does it have separate pressed bits for the humps above the head nuts? if so you might be able to fake the funk and add the 3rd holes yourself... just tell everyone some crazy story of the lengths you had to go to to get them, them giggle to yourself. |
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TheLadyBug Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2014 Posts: 639 Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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henry roberts wrote: |
for trans dates look in the FAQ at the top of the index in this forum, they are in the same list as the engine/chassis numbers.
with your cylinder tin, does it have separate pressed bits for the humps above the head nuts? if so you might be able to fake the funk and add the 3rd holes yourself... just tell everyone some crazy story of the lengths you had to go to to get them, them giggle to yourself. |
I'll have to look more closely at the tins... I recall reading just what you're talking about but that 54-55 engine thread is so overwhelming I totally forgot.
And yes I'll go check the numbers on the tranny, I was not functioning at optimum capacity at 1am last night didn't think transmissions were listed there. I assume rear axle is the transmission number? _________________ Charmaine
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1954 Beetle - because I can
2016 Golf highline - hubby’s daily
2016 Golf R - my daily |
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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On Samba, there are only a select few that REALLY know what they are looking for on early 36hp engines. The "What's correct 54-55 engine" thread has really helped alot of us in finding the right parts. But, in my experience at shows...there aren't too many who know what they are looking for on a 36hp engine. Most just walk right on past the 36hp cars, and look at the big chrome engines at the show.
Finding the correct parts right now will break the bank (you're gonna cry when you see the prices for the parts you're missing). I would use what you've got, and just keep an eye out at swaps for the correct parts. I find most of my early engine parts at the bottom of boxes of the forgotten 36hp stash at swap meets. (For cheap or next to nothing) and from friends that know what I'm looking for. |
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