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Winter is here and so is the cold (Heating the cab)
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Winter is here and so is the cold (Heating the cab) Reply with quote

Hello to the people of the northern hemisphere Laughing . I am one of the many people who are thinking that the stock heating of a karmann ghia is good but I would like a bit better. Yesterday the temperature here was 80*F or about 30*C, but today the temperature when I drove my ghia to school was 40*F or O*C. It was not very fun.

I was looking into buying one of two things.

The first "thing" would be to buy a T4 bus heater blower and put that in the center just like this one. It just replaces the engine's fan with one that always works at the same high speed.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The other one would be like this. This one is not for a car but I have seen some that are made for cars at a few shows.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The first one looks like it would work ok. I want the car's heater vents to spit out heat like they do going down the road at 3000 rpm. Would that first heater always be as warm as high-ish rpms? I like to be warm at idle because of traffic here (idle). I feel that the second choice of the little box sitting on the tunnel to the side of the gas pedal would be cool also. It would be almost instant Surprised .

Any help and suggestions would be great. My budget is about 50 bucks Laughing

And yes. My car has no leaks in the heating system. It is just.... slow..... and cold...

Thanks
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wcfvw69 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just curious if you're running a thermostat and the flaps?
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm just curious if you're running a thermostat and the flaps?


That was some random picture that came up on my google search. I am really leaning towards one of the electric ones (not the bus blower). I have one that I use in my garage. It is small, but it will take only about 10 seconds from dead cold to blow really hot air! it seems really sweet.
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wcfvw69 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloku wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm just curious if you're running a thermostat and the flaps?


That was some random picture that came up on my google search. I am really leaning towards one of the electric ones (not the bus blower). I have one that I use in my garage. It is small, but it will take only about 10 seconds from dead cold to blow really hot air! it seems really sweet.


No, I was wondering if YOUR engine has the original thermostat and cooling flaps inside your fan shroud.
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Bloku wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm just curious if you're running a thermostat and the flaps?


That was some random picture that came up on my google search. I am really leaning towards one of the electric ones (not the bus blower). I have one that I use in my garage. It is small, but it will take only about 10 seconds from dead cold to blow really hot air! it seems really sweet.


No, I was wondering if YOUR engine has the original thermostat and cooling flaps inside your fan shroud.


Just looked. My engine does not have a thermostat. It is a 1971 dual port if it matters. Will not having these flaps and a thermostat do anything? It has ran like a pro for years and it has only overheated once on its first long distance trip.

Will not having these make my car's heaters work less than standard? Thanks
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wcfvw69 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, your heater will not work NEARLY as well with out the thermostat and flaps in place. In cold weather, the thermostat will not open up and thus the flaps in the fan shroud stay closed blocking the cooling air to the heads and cylinders. This make the engine warm up better and your heater work MUCH better.

Basically, your heater boxes get hot MUCH faster. If it was my VW, I'd install the flaps, linkages and thermostat back to the car before trying anything else. You'll be surprised how well they work in making your heat much hotter.

In REALLY cold weather, I've read the flaps never really open due to not needing to let the cold air blow over the heads and cylinders.
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kiwighia68
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And there I was wondering whether I should install an air-conditioner to my Ghia for cooling!
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djway3474
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bus heater blower is the equivalent of going around 35 mph in 4th. They are to help when at idle and are used in conjunction with the motor fan. They have one way flaps so air wont go out the fan inlet. You need to T them into the stock system. Not much help really and a lot of guys leave them off the bus.
If you live in cold country you need your thermostat system. You may be missing the flaps too. I have seen many a motor without them but that is here is So Cal.
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arggh put an extra jacket on you pussies! I had to wear short trousers to school in the winter until I was 13, rain, hail or snow. No double glazing or central heating...used to have to scratch the ice off the inside of the windows of my bedroom to see out most winter mornings. Laughing
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asbug
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Ghia vert has NO HEAT at all.
It was 28*F (-2.2* C) the other morning.
The Ghia sleeps in the Garage, so the car was at 60 ish degrees.
I have spent A LOT of time trying to get all the seals and such just right.
This is not easy on a vert...
But I am happy to say that the car stayed warm all of the 30 minute drive to work.
It was 72*F (22.2*C) that afternoon so it was perfect to drive home in (welcome to Georgia in Autumn).

Point is, get all the seals right and you will have a much more pleasant driving experience.
KC
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:
Arggh put an extra jacket on you pussies! I had to wear short trousers to school in the winter until I was 13, rain, hail or snow. No double glazing or central heating...used to have to scratch the ice off the inside of the windows of my bedroom to see out most winter mornings. Laughing


I believe the correct term is 'wippersnappers' Wink Smile

Yeah for those wimps who don't go to bed with a hot water bottle: ceramic heater and extension cord first thing in the morning if you aren't worried about a cold car when you get off of work -- gas heater if you want heat on demand. Both are dangerous so triple check everything often.

Martin Allen is the guy to buy a gas heater from.

Bluedot has a good thread on electric heat -- but I am still waiting to see if works over the long term Smile
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and, yes you should always run a thermostat and flaps -- even if you live in the Mexico desert. Running cold damages the engine.
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Bloku
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see some for sale but it seems that it will be very hard to install. Would I be better off just having no flaps until I do a engine rebuild or somethig? I still want do use the electric heater. Should I go through all the troubles of putting in flaps or just bite the bullet?
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danielsan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does require removing the shroud. And I think the easiest way to remove the shroud is to remove the engine -- others disagree.

(it is just possible with the block of wood shroud raising technique but I think that is actually more trouble than removing the engine)


The flaps are part of the cooling system -- they don't just control heat but where the air goes, if it is directed towards the heads or cylinders and in what quantities. The flaps themselves correspond to the vanes inside the shroud. Long answer short -- you can bite the bullet but know that you are increasing the wear on your engine. I would only bite if I had money set aside for a top end rebuild.

For the long answer check out the shroud dissection photos in the engine section.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK,
Here is my take...
You should have a working Thermostat period.
Having said this, I do not - BUT I have the flaps installed and bracketed open.
The Flaps help direct the flow of air across the cyl. and in my case help cool the engine better. My experiences first hand, not internet hearsay.

So, just my $0.02 - even if you have no thermostat use the flaps.
I actually have a thermostat, mount, and rod so I will get one installed.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up with VW's in warm S. California. Those mechanics back then were notorious for removing the flaps and thermostats "cause they aren't needed" in our weather here. So, I drove stock and non stock engines for several years with out them. Now, it can get in the 30's in S. California and I remember being rather cold driving to school in the winter even with the heater working.

Fast forward 20 years later. I took the time to track down ALL the proper tin, thermostat, brackets, bowden cable, stove pipe, etc on my bone stock 69 convertible. It's running the factory oil bath that the thermostat, flaps and bowden cable control.

It's amazing how much better this bug runs with all the pieces the Germans had on this engine when it was new. The warm air to the carb, the thermostat controlling the flaps, just makes the drivability of that bug amazing when it's 30 degrees outside. The heater blows HOT air much quicker and it will roast you, even on those cold (for us) days.

The other MAJOR factor is that the thermostat and flaps help the engine warm up correctly, making it last longer than without. A lot of very experienced VW mechanics won't run their VW without them in place.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but trying to power any decent sized electrical heater is going to be a challenge with the power draw required...and those little AC mini units are a joke IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I don't live far from you and the high temp. is 32 degrees today. I took my '54 bug out for a ride this morning and wore a down filled coat, a hat and gloves. The car has zero heat and I was toasty...
zen
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes those little units are a joke, my dad got one once. It might get hot quick but it doesn't heat well. Same as a good working stock heater. I'm with John and zen, put a coat on! If your just driving to school and back I think you can bear the cold for a bit. Save the 50 dollars, or buy some good winter cloths.

I am a wussy when it comes to the cold,but my ghia has no heating system so I dress in layers when it gets get cold.

On another note you could most certainly buy a heater or fix/ modify your existing one.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to laugh a little about this and me.

On my 5th ghia over time. The current '69 I test drove and bought home with my daughter. At the time she was 2yrs old. She is now 5 and just had this conservation yesterday.

"Don't worry dad, we can still drive the red car, I know it doesn't have a heater but we can just wear our beanies, gloves and coats and when people stop us to ask why all the warm clothes we can just tell them the car doesn't have a heater and and we are still warm."

I love my child. lol.
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