Author |
Message |
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The new EMPI sump is a lot different than I remember it. This new one has many different features. I like the internal columns as well as the cutouts to access the screws. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 4394 Location: Brew City
|
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
bugguy1967 wrote: |
Hi Roy. The step is merely a preference thing in my eyes. I'll weigh the options. I'm concerned with the engine being as narrow as possible with the parts I have in front of me.
Btw Roy, with the cam's specs, would an even 10.0:1 static cause any pinging issues? I'ma make sure to knock that edge out of the chamber. |
I've never used Scat heads so I don't know how well they cool. I did run 10.5 to 1 in my 2276 with my Mofoco 050's(with a step) and had no pinging issues. I also ran a W120 cam, 1.25 ratio rockers and dual weber 44 IDF's. _________________ Please "LIKE" us on facebook to see what we are working on.
https://www.facebook.com/mofoco?ref=ts&fref=ts
www.mofoco.com
Cylinder Head Reference Sheet |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah, ok. You used 1.25s, which gave you a few more degrees at .050" over the advertised numbers. I think I'll be safe close to 10.0:1. I'll see how the deck and ccs work out.
Btw, I have plenty of pics of prepping the case and measuring crank and cam clearances, but no time to post right now. Maybe tomorrow. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok. I'm 10 hours into this build as of today. So far, I've done a ton of deburring to all the oil holes, case edges, main and cam saddles, and removed a bunch of loose casting bits. I used my Dremel, a few small files, and sandpaper to smooth out the areas I filed. I've always been a budget builder and never built on a new case. I'm sure so many people have built with new blocks and didn't spend the time to deburr everything. Here's some of the things I found:
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's some deburring work around the inside edge.
The oil hole for the pump inlet had some flashing too. Here's the finished result:
Oh btw, there were shoulder nuts with the sump!
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Installed all the main bearings and cam bearings in the case with some dowel pins I had. I guess the kit doesn't supply them. Torqued the six main nuts to 25 ft lbs and measured all the bearing I.Ds with my two dial bore gauges.
Cam bore:
All my measurements were on the low side of the tolerance scale, which will be great for oil pressure.
Popped the case back open and checked the main bearing oil hole alignment. I tried to use a Sharpie at first, but it would not transfer over onto the bearing. I then used a small amount of grease around the oiling hole and pressed the bearings into their saddles. The shape of the hole transferred over nicely. I then scribed the shape permanently so i could remove material tomorrow.
I found this center cam bearing overhang on both sides of the crankcase. It's due to the stroker crank reliefs in that area. I'll keep an eye out for a possible rod collision during mock-up.
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Checked the oil hole alignment on the pump housing inlet side. The outlet isn't needed since we'll be full flowing this engine. Used the grease method again:
Scribed, marked, and filed. I finished it with my Dremel and a sanding disc. Turned out pretty nice.
You can see the alignment is much better now.
Oh, the rod bearings are Mahle, I believe. Or Clemex? Either way, with them installed in the H Beam rods, they spec out nicely.
Checked all the lifter bores. I'm glad that my dial bore gauge is from .700 to 1.500, which allows me to check both the lifter bores and cam bearing I.D. Bore I.Ds ranged from .749" to .750".
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't have the GB cam yet, but new cams always have been .983" at the journals. If the GB cam turns out to be .983" as well, the journal to bearing clearance will be too tight. The cam bearing I.Ds were between .987" and .9885", which would make my clearance between .004" and .0055". The manual states that .0047" is the minimum. If the cam arrives and it turns out that way, I'll put it in the lathe, and slowly remove .0007" with a light sandpaper, then re-polish.
Mic'd the crank journals:
And the rod big ends:
I made sure to torque the rod bolts to 50 ft lbs wet before measuring. They all spec'd out on the low side. Again, good pressure on the way! _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"
Last edited by bugguy1967 on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MURZI Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005 Posts: 5063 Location: Madisonville, La
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
On the main bearings.... Make sure if you use aftermarket dowel pins you knock them down to the proper length. I have ran into aftermarket ones being too long and can pinch/ruin bearings. The detail you are going through is what I do on every build. It takes time and has to be a labor of love. Most people won't pay you for that...... Only you will know its "right" .....but that is a good thing. Keep the pics coming. _________________ 62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Northof49 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 1759 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice work. It's a joy to work with all new parts (other than fit issues).
How is the fit of the oil pump in the case? _________________ 1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
It fits tight. I'm not going by feeling though. I'll be measuring the body and the case pump bore I.D. I should have done it while the case was closed up. Oh well. I'll put it together again. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kinda disappointed today. I wanted to at least measure the pump and hang the rods on the crank for mock-up. All I got done today was lining up the oil holes on the main bearings. I placed them in a vise on the Bridgeport between two aluminum plates to protect the bearings from damage. All they need now is some deburring.
Gotta figure out what I can bring in to work tomorrow to do during my lunchtime. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26740 Location: Colorado Springs
|
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think you are one decimal off on your cam bearing clearance
0.0005 minimum? possibly
.005 maximum, maybe, but .004 would be better. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just checked my manual again, and you're right! My manual confuses me sometimes. So it appears that I may have too much clearance. I'll re-measure the I.Ds to make sure. If they are too loose, should I buy another brand of bearings? _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
K. Didn't take pictures of the re-measuring, but everything's fine. I added some M8 nuts around the bottom and lower rear of the case just in case those aid in closing up those cam bores. They now measure .002", .003, and .004". Not happy with the .004", but I didn't completely surround the block with hardware, and did not do so with oil on the threads, so they may close up a little more.
I've been blueprinting the pump, checking the housing O.D., the case's I.D. For the pump housing, the depth, and the gear thickness. I still haven't measured the gear lash. I measured .003"-.004" end clearance, but since that was at the top of the tolerance, I brought it to work and removed .002" by hand. The face was actually not very flat. It's a lot better now.
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Being that this is a turnkey build, I still have to focus some of my attention to the external parts. I purchased a piece of .029" thick raw sheet metal from McMaster to block off the pre-heat hole and the heat riser cutouts on the breastplate. The stock sheet metal measures .033, so it's pretty close. I'll grind off the heat riser bosses and have little block-off plates stitch welded onto the underside.
Also, the F.I. Shroud will be undergoing some modifications. I'll be relocating the accelerator tube hole and filling in all unimportant holes. I believe I'll be doing something special with the breather lines in between the shroud and the case.
I think the ignition system he's settled on is the Pertronix Ignitor 3 Billet Distributor and matching coil.
Oh, and my client just informed me that the cam arrived!
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's part of what we're using for a breather system:
Moroso Crankcase Evacuation. We'll use some sort of air/oil separator, like a completely sealed Clyde Berg breather box with three bottom inlets and one top outlet going to the collector. The case will be sand sealed and o-ringed at the dipstick location. I should tap a vacuum gauge into the box as well to monitor how it's working. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Got some new parts today! Clyde Berg/EMPI 1.4:1 rockers, Gene Berg pump cover, Gene Berg full flow kit with all the lines, filter, adapter, and fittings, CB 28mm Ultralight Lifters, Engle V26 from Berg, and double-lipped main seal.
I think Clyde polishes the valve tip contact surface on the Rockers. Not certain, but I believe I saw a pair of EMPI 1.4s before and they were really rough in that area.
So far, I've checked the shaft thicknesses. They all measured .746". The manual calls for .7463", but I've never found a new lifter to measure .7463". That puts my lifter shaft to bore clearance at .003"-.004".
Here's some shots of the 42x37 "Big D" heads:
_________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
your learning a good lesson. I dont mod the main bearing to line up with the case, I mod the case so it never needs to be done again I usualy slot them so they flow better too. pay attn to what your doing on everything even deburring.Ive seen the oil scrapers removed by somebody doing a good deburring job. I would of thought those heads would of had more of a tapered guide. keep up the good work.and dont forget to deburr the cam lobes.!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugguy1967 Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008 Posts: 4338 Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
|
Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah. I was just discussing deburring with my client this evening. The cam will be deburred and the edges will be smoothed out.
What's the proper way to stroke relieve a cam? I'm pretty handy with a Bridgeport. I could come across the areas with a suitable endmill with rounded edges. Would that suffice? I read that grinding on the cam can warp it. I'd try with a used cam first to test the waters.
Also, about modding the case instead of the bearings, that must be a case quality issue then, and not a bearing quality issue? I thought some bearings might line up better than others. _________________ "A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|