Timing issue

[cb747]

Hi all first post here and I am completely new to bugs I have a quick question. Would the engine run if the firing order was wrong as in #3 firing instead of #1. I got the car non running and hasn't run in years. I got it started but it runs like total crap which is to be expected.

[gt1953]

Obtain service manuals before proceeding. That way you will be able to set up the timing valves carb etc.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
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[Randy in Maine]

Do you know how to confirm that the engine is ready for #1 to fire (and not #3) by looking at the valves as you move the crankshaft around TDC?

[Keithinky]

[Aussiebug]

cb747, welcome

To directly answer your question...it depends on what distributor you have.

The original 1970 and earlier distributors all used single vacuum single advance (SVSA) and they all had No3 cylinder 3 degrees retarded (on the distribtuor cam lobes) to take a bit of heat load off that cylinder - the old style cooling system gave the worst cooling to No3 cylinder. So if you DID time it on No3 and ARE using an old SVSA distributor, then your timing is off.

If you are using a more recent SVDA, DVDA or 009 distributor, then using No3 to time it is OK.

But that's why we always use No1 for timing - it works for ANY distributor.

You need to know what cylinder you are using, and it's easy to do. Put the timing marks near the top of the pulley and pull of the right side valve cover. The front cylinder there is No1 (front is front of car). If both valves are loose (shut) then you have the timing marks on No1. If the No1 exhaust valve spring is compressed (open), then you have the timing marks on No3 and need to turn the engine through 360 degrees and check the No1 valve springs again.

Enjoy your "new" car.
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
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[HRVW]

Any VW that has not run in ages so to speak will more issues then just the firing order which is 1-4-3-2

#1 RF, #2 RR, #3 LF, #4 LR (backwards 1-2-3-4( while the firing order is a 1-4-3-2.

Knowing where the TDC on the pully is a important factor.

With that TDC your dis rotor will be pointing at #1 or #3 spk plug wire/cyl.

That being said it is very possible for a cyl NOT to fire depending on the spk plug itself or the wires or maybe the valves TOO tight from lack of the engine having been run for a while and with a valve open the cyy will have NO compression thus only running on 3 cyls...many variables to mention with a poor running engine...everything needs to be checked carfefully.

A VW book would help loads or maybe with help from another VW person.

It will take a while.

(VW mechanic Retired)

[cb747]

Thanks for the advice. I do know a good amount about cars (have a 75 Duster 360 that I've rebuilt) but basically nothing about VW motors. Ive read that I could have the 1st cylinder on the wrong stroke. I am just wondering that if that is the case would the car still run? Im not sure what distributor is in it other than its a single vacuum advance. I have put new plus and wires, cap, rotor. points ands condenser in. I am sure I have carb issues as well. It was parked in 99. Allegedly started in 2005 and has sat ever sense. I pulled the gas tank out and it looks in good shape and was bone dry surprisingly.

[cb747]

Randy no I do not. How hard is it to pull the valve cover with the engine in the car?

[Harleyelf]

Grab the wire clip with your fingers or a screwdriver. Pull it down and the valve cover will fall into your hand unless it's glued, in which case you have to grab it and pull.

Use good cork gaskets, no glue but grease, and they will not leak when you put them back on, and be easy to remove.

TDC is often marked by a round dimple on the rear edge of the fan belt pulley. Static timing mark is on the edge of the pulley closer to the motor and is not round, but v shaped. .004" intake, .006" exhaust. No timing chain, rotate the engine any direction you want. Set timing to 30 degrees BTDC at full advance. You should forget trying to static time it. Too many distributors over the years , too many hands on every bug, to know for sure which one your mark is for. 4-3-2-1 clockwise starting in lower left, right two distributor spots to the right cylinders and the left two to the left side if it is set right.

[cb747]

Oh wow didn't realize it was that simple LOL I will do that tomorrow or next time I work on the car

[Randy in Maine]

Been here?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4921443

[mikeonthebike]

Another good site is...

http://vw-resource.com/

[ashman40]

[Aussiebug]

[cb747]

You guys rock! Thank you!

[Randy in Maine]

While you are in there....

Using a model airplane paint brush and some white or silver paint, I like to make a thin mark "l" on the pulley for TDC and a double line "ll" for BDC. Handy for adjusting valves. I also put just a tiny drop of paint, "o" for 30º TDC and one at the correct timing mark 7.5º BTDC or 5º ATDC (for the distributor that you are running).

Easier to see with the timing light. Sort of like this for Amskeptic's 73 type 4 engine looking at the idle timing for cylinder 2 at 10º ATDC....

[cb747]

Lotsa rain today and heading for a cold snap tomorrow. It may have to wait a few days

[cb747]

Ok got it going where it actually idled for a few mins. Progress! Now im quite sure I need to rebuild the carb. After sitting for so many years im willing to bet its all munged up inside. Where is a good place to get a rebuild kit from?

[Randy in Maine]

If it were me, I would just send it off to Tim at Volksbitz and have him go through it. Money well spent.

http://volkzbitz.com/

[cb747]

Ok ill give him a ring