Master series vs. Epoxy primer

[RLFD213]

Sorry to sound stupid but here is my next question. Instead of epoxy primer can you use master series as a "epoxy primer"? I was thinking bare metal, filler, master series and then when it warms up epoxy primer, hi build primer and then paint. Just looking to see what others think. Thanks

[Mike Fisher]

If you use Master Series silver & black I would skip the epoxy primer.
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'68 Karmann Ghia sold

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[RLFD213]

Ok, I didn't think about the black paint. I just thought the silver sealer. This is on the body too not the pan. I did the pan and from reading what the manufacturer says about it sealing I thought why not use it on the body instead of epoxy primer.

[Mike Fisher]

I don't think it was meant for exterior, but I do think it would work fine.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[c21darrel]

Agree, I dont think its intended use is on exterior parts exposed to sunlight. I would also bet it would last forever. I painted a pole in my yard that protects my Gas meter from being hit by a car. Its just the silver no top coat and it still looks perfect after 3 years in the weather.
http://www.masterseriesct.com/page8.html
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[RLFD213]

I was planning on painting over it, just not black. I am planning on single stage paint and clear coat. Just wanted to know if the silver would be better than epoxy primer. I did my pan with silver and it's great and was easy to apply vs. Painting with a gun.

[c21darrel]

Call Chuck, see if he has ever done that.
I think it would probably be overkill unless you live someplace where its always wet...salty...like...UK...Rust Belt...
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[Bobnotch]

[beetlenut]

I did what you are asking about as I didn't have the set-up to spray the epoxy primer. The MS Silver primer is not UV safe and is not meant to be exposed to sunlight. It also has a topcoat window of about a week I think. If you wait too long before you paint over it, it cures to the point that you have to lightly sand it before top coating. I used it over all my body work, then used HI build primer, then a two stage urethane. The MS products are Urethanes. So the MS silver is a urethane primer compaired to an epoxy primer.
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[vwsplitman]

I hate to burst your bubble but the Masterseries silver primer is NOT bothered by sunlight. I have samples I take to major car shows that have been in direct sunlight for over 10 years and there are no problems with peeling , fading or rust coming back. Sunlight does not affect the MasterSeries silver. It is 40% aluminum flake. As far as topcoating, I would apply the 2 coats of silver MS as a primer, then the next day apply your topcoat. If you wait much more than a day, you will need to scuff the MS silver to get adhesion. Also when the 2nd coat is almost dry, and doesn't leave any finger This will form an incredible bond with the MS. Then a few hours later put a heavier coat of the gray primer.

I have used a brand name epoxy primer, applied several coats, put it outside and after a few months unbelievable rusting. Some of these primers are like water when you spray them, and people expect them to stop rust. Don't put them on and leave the vehicle in a damp or outside area. Chuck P

[beetlenut]

[Brent]

[joemo5]

I am about to do the same thing with my 70 vert. Master Series (silver) over etched bare metal, then epoxy primer. Again, the trick is to get it primed within 7 days or you have to sand again. I called the people at Master Series before I planned on this.

[Evil_Fiz]

I’m reviving this thread in order to get a sanity check on my plans.
I am almost done completely stripping the paint from my 70 convertible Ghia.

My plan are as follows:
- The car will be completely stripped to bare metal via sand blasting and chemical stripping.
- The bare metal has been, and will be, treated with Eastwood After Blast (Phosphoric acid treatment)
- The metal will be very lightly sanded with drywall sanding screens to remove the roughness/residue left behind by the Phosphoric acid.

Next steps
- Perform all body work, metal finishing, and panel repairs and replacements
- Coat the entire car (body, pan, suspension Etc.) with 2 coats of MasterSeries Silver
- Topcoat the MS on everything except the outer body panels with 2 – 3 coats of AG-11 Grey (Done for durability and to aid with visibility when working on the car)
- Topcoat the MS on the outer body panels with 2 – 3 coats of high build primer (recommendations needed on brand and chemistry)
- Sand, rinse and repeat until body is straight
- Seal with reduced epoxy (Thinking of using [SPI] Southern Polyurethane)
- Paint - no decision on system, brand, or color yet but leaning towards BC/CC in Ford Deep Impact Blue.

At what point should I apply filler if needed?
Pleas point out where I am making mistakes to help avoid costly decisions.

Thanks,
Emil
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[vwsplitman]

Ive been using the MasterSeries primer and AG111 line for about 25 years on everything I do. Sandblast the metal, apply 2 coats of the MS silver primer. Then the car goes off to the painters. At this point they scuff the car , and apply filler on top of the scuffed MasterSeries. Then MasterSeries silver can be applied over the sanded and finished filler. If tiny bubbles appear over the filler, that is just the moisture getting drawn out of the filler. When the MS dries go over those areas with a 320 grit, sand and reapply MS silver primer. Then they apply their primer (Dupont ) over everything. Then Dupont single stage over the entire car. I do the entire chassis here. Two coats of silver MS primer, then usually 1 coat of the AG111 topcoat(Satin Black). Takes about 2 quarts of the MS primer and 1 1/2 quarts of the AG111 topcoat to do the chassis, pans, front end, backing plates, and swing axle tubes. Chuck P (MasterSeriesCT.com)

[Evil_Fiz]

Thank you Chuck for the thorough response.
- Can you provide the DuPont product names or numbers that you know work over the MS silver?
- Do you, or anyone else, have a recommendation on what filler brand and line to use in conjunction with the MS silver?
- Most of the metal has been chemically stripped and treated with phosphoric acid. Do I need to scuff it before I apply the MS silver?

I have no brand loyalty or paint experience so a known good solution is good enough for me. This will not be a show car but I want to do it right and look at least as good as a factory paint job.

Thanks folks,
Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[beetlenut]

[Evil_Fiz]

Thanks beetlenut. The picture you posted, which I had seen on another thread, is what gave me the idea of going with the AG-111 Grey due to the lightness of the color. I have heard good things about Rage Gold on other forums so it is good to know it is compatible with MS.

-----
Emil
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“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[Peter D.]

I just did two coats of MasterseriesCT sliver primer on my Ghia pan. Getting into all the little nooks and crannies with a foam brush took a lot of time! If I had the budget or resources, I would definitely go with spraying and that's my advice to all of you out there.

I wonder how much time I have before I need to put my final coat back on. I don't want to have to sand/scuff but I also don't feel like doing it right away. What's the window on the last coat... maybe I should just read the data sheets!

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[beetlenut]

Looks good! I disagree with the foam brushes vs spraying. With the foam brushes I was able to really work the stuff into all the areas I might not be able to with spraying. Foam brushes is definitely cheaper and safer than spraying with less overhead, and with the self-leveling characteristics of the Silver primer, it looks sprayed once it flows out.

For some reason a week sticks in my head about having to scuff after curing before top coat. Scuffing wasn't that bad though. Would also probably depend how much humidity is in the air as to how fast is cures.
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