I need help... another id thread

D Rock · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: I need help... another id thread

1st time sand rail owner here and absolutely no clue what I have. Will you guys help me to find out what I have? I probably should have taken some better pics. This is what I have so far. THANKS!!!

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Dale M. · Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject:

Early .. King & link front suspension probably pre 68 and I believe 68 and later were ball joint.... Early VW "swing axle" transmission between 61 and 67, and appears to be short spline axles.... 67 and later has long axle and long splines...

Chassis also appears that at one time it may have had later 69 onward IRS rear suspension but now removed (bracket right behind rubber snubber on second picture)... Also probably running adapters on wheels as they do not appear wide five (205mm x 5)..

Front brakes are gutted, you have hub/drum only...

Chassis is pretty much average type of rail tube frame.... Got to be a hundred styles out there that look similar...

Engine appears to have "dog house" (offset) style oil cooler and dual port heads...

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

winchin73blazinbaja · Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:30 am Post subject:

nice eye on the engine dale. It took me about 3 minutes to find the engine.

D Rock · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the reply's.

My bolt spacing is 5 on 4.5 by my measure. That is a foxbody Mustang bolt pattern. I am considering doing a disc conversion, would Mustang calipers work or no or is that just an adapter?

Also, I'm thinking 195/65/15 front tires on 4.5" rims and 31/10.50/15 rear tires on 15x10 rims. Do you think I have enough gear ratio to handle that?

winchin73blazinbaja · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:27 am Post subject:

usually all that is done is a vw brake drum blank is drilled out to the bolt pattern of the in your case ford 5 X 4.5" Bolt Pattern. so vw brake parts will be used.

D Rock · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that info. I had never heard of that before. That is for changing to disc brakes correct? Then do I just need the calipers and pads?

Brian · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject:

bac to der tranny, if someone had a rail for swing it would probably be wise to not use a '67 setup?

There are VW disc kits for that front end. I would do that because I think the 5x205mm pattern is different than the foxes, ever so slightly.
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D Rock · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject:

So far I have drums on the rear and nothing up front. It will probably be 80/20, road to offroad, no hard offroad to speak of.

Several Questions:
1. What is the most important type of brake (drum/disc) for a rail?
2. Is front or rear or both the most important?
3. If I convert from drum to disc will I need to change the brake lines as well?
4. Any shock recommendations? KYB is on the front, do I get KYB for the rear or change all 4 to Ranchos? I have Rancho's on my 74' bronco. Better/Worse?

ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:13 am Post subject:

I wish I had run my steering shaft like that instead of steering with my nutz. Rolling Eyes

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Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
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CBFLbikerider · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:45 am Post subject:

Nice lookin' rail. I just got one a few months ago. Like you I have been going through it and making it safe and fun. I was told by a local guy with 20+ years in bugs that the front end has little or no weight on it and that brakes are often removed to stop the lockup and loss of steering. I too have no front brakes, only hubs. That is what got me to move to disc brakes on the rear axle. (along with a couple of Shocked

moments) Turns out my axle seals leaked and caused my drums and shoes to be polluted... The lines from the pedal to the caliper are good to use. There is an added short flex line in the kit to allow the caliper to "float".
I am running stock shocks for the time being. Don't know if I want a harder ride than I have now Laughing

D Rock · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject:

Here are some better pics as of today

D Rock · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject:

Do other rails have the left side motor lean or just mine? Or do I have something loose?

Scott88ag · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject:

Cool ride!
I'll throw you some info from my experience and what I heard from the guys here.

I converted my rail to discs on all four wheels.
Mine is for street use only so locking up in sand/dirt won't be a problem for me.
If you're going off-road most of the time, that's something to consider.
I also have a proportioning valve to control bias. I have it dialed in just right.
My fronts don't quite lock up and it stops like it has an anchor!

I used a CB Performance kit on the rears (I heard the EMPI kits for the rear had lots of problems with E brake and flex, so I went with a kit I knew would work).
I used EMPI kit to convert the front. I chose the 4 lug pattern all around.
(pics at bottom)
I'm running KYB's on all four corners, but again mine is for street use so I don't need a lot of travel.

I suspect your frame horns are bent which is causing the lean. That is definitely not normal...

Vanapplebomb

Nice color choice Wink

ORANGECRUSHer · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:34 am Post subject:

D Rock · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject:

Side view. These aren't my pics, there the PO. This was from the craigslist ad.

D Rock

[quote="Vanapplebomb"]Nice color choice Wink

This is how I got it. The reason it's on the trailer in the first pics is because I had just picked it up from the PO. I'm thinking of some different colors, just haven't settled on anything. Right now, I'm trying to get it to go and stop.

So far, I have replaced the bulbs, and my BIL changed the brake drums, and changed the trans oil. We changed the rear axle boots, too. They were shot and leaking.

D Rock · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject:

How are ya'll mounting your headlights and signals? Are you fabing up gussets for the tubes? Any pics? I'm not real wild about the gangsterness of the angle iron and blobtastic welding that is my current lighting set up.

Also, I think I need to raise my taillights from their current location because how they are just barely visible around the motor shroud. Like maybe as high as the middle of the seats.

dustymojave · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject:

Correction for Dale...
Kingpin front suspension was last used on the 1965 year model for VWs imported to the USA. 1966 and later had ball joint, 66 and 67 had 5-lug drums still and the spindle shanks and tie rod ends were smaller than the 68 and later.

For ideas on how to mount lights for a street used rail, look through the "Show off your Dune Buggy or SandRail" section of the HBB Forum http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=383554
There are a great many pictures of street rails in there.

I suggest you look for a rear bumper cage made for the back of a Baja Bug. It would not only be a good place to mount your tail lights and license plate where they can be seen, it would also provide protection from fools running into the back of your engine and if you take it offroad, it provides a place to mount a skidplate for protection from things that go bump underneath.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

D Rock · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:44 pm Post subject:

Any recommendations on which disc brake conversion to go with?

I think I will go with disc on all 4 wheels.

If anybody can give me a specific kit number that I need that would be GREAT!!!


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