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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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 Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| 0to60in6min wrote: |
| I may be wrong but my guess that Europro will take at least 2/3 of your $15K budget for a Subie 2.2 conversion or even all of it.. |
Yeah. this is the max I want to spend in the first year. Once I know that the Van is workable as a daily driver, I may unload my current 2007 Rabbit.
The $15k number was more of a number I'm comfortable with as I'm doing this instead of getting a new vehicle.
I feel like I'd be spending about $15k on a new car after trading in my current vehicle. Instead I'm going to put about $15k in to a project. This also means, that depending on what I do, bigger items like an engine swap might get put off until I can pay for it out of pocket comfortably.
The truth is, I'm already committed to this, and I feel like $15k is a realistic number for getting a good amount of what I want to do done, including srewing things up because I don't know what I'm doing yet.
That's not including regular maintenance, which I'll budget probably $2 - $4k a year on top of project costs. The goal is to get a vehicle that I can afford to take care of, that suits my needs and style, and that I'll be happy with for a very, very long time. The Vanagon is the way for me to do all those things.
Okay, these next few paragraphs are a little off topic with your comment, but gets in to my motivations for wanting a Vanagon. Feel free to skip the read if you don't like long-winded self affirmations.
I don't like the idea of new cars any more. The second I walk away from the three ring circus of the managers, the sales dude who's pressured to move inventory, and the finance guy, the car is used. I start the engine, I'm in a Used Car now, it's not new any longer. If I turned around and tried to sell it, I'd have to ask for thousands less than I paid for it, no matter how much work I put in to it. And I get to look forward to 4 years of subpar maintenance from the VW dealership as they put off fixing major problems until I'm out of warranty, and out of luck. Not so, when I turn the key of a vanagon and drive it away from owners who gave me immaculately kept maintenance records, and told me stories of what they did in the van, before demanding that they take a picture of me in front of it before I drive away.
I'd much rather get something I can get to know inside and out, and am seduced to get to know inside and out. And something that has 20+ years of other people doing the same. Something that's been around long enough for people to know what the problems are, and how to address them ahead of time. Also, something that has very exciting possibilities (like a Suby conversion on a rebuilt engine!) that will help keep this a vehicle that actually makes sense to keep on the road long(ish)-term.
I've outgrown my Rabbit, and I've beat up the back bumper and interior upholstery from packing tons of equipment in it almost non stop for 7 years. I'd rather get something that meets my needs now, and is "worth" dumping time and energy and money in to. I don't like Honda Fit, I didn't want a Jetta Sports Wagon, SUV's are ugly, and the U in SUV is a joke. Honda Element wasn't exciting. And I originally got the Rabbit instead of a Scion XB, so going in to one now would be a step back. Mazda 5's didn't do it for me either, Rav4 just isn't my style, and commercial vehicles were almost out of the question once I researched their motors, and cost, not to mention the dread of owning something as boring as a commercial vehicle. Most other current vehicles that check all of my boxes don't happen to be available in the US.
A vanagon (in any condition) gives me the luxury of being able to load up with ease, and with style. It literally checks all of my god-damn boxes. Plus, it fits my current attitude towards new cars, and the UTILITY of vehicles in general. Not to mention keeping it working and on the road keeps it out of a junkyard. Plus, vanagons, westy's, and synros are so damn cool.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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unless you're really hooked on a Subie engine and not considering anything else...
there are other options that use about half of your budget such as Vanistan engine, GW engine or a full rebuild etc etc
and leave the other half for other things |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9800
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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fwiw - I went with a gowesty 2.2 rebuild of my 1.9 (1884 westy) and couldn't be more pleased.
I was content with the wbx's power (which increased noticeably w/ the 2.2) so this made sense for me. I wanted reliability and ease of maintenance whether it was I or shop doing the work.
I have spent about $10,000 on maintenance which isn't bad when you take into account that is spread over 25 years and includes the aforementioned engine and a rebuilt trans from AATransaxle. |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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These are good things to consider. What's your MPG with the Gowesty 2.2?
My only concern with the waterboxer is the MPG, and the fact that it's a motor that's almost the same as what's in my car now.
Rebuilt engine's are options too, but I must be able to get smogged in CA. From what I've read the 1.8T, and the Subaru 2.2 are my best bets. I haven't read much on the Gowesty motors, but they don't seem to make sense with bringing the vehicle up to 2014. Less emissions would be nice too.
As I drive the rust bucket I got around and plan sourcing a van with less seam rust, I'm really enjoying the ride for what it is. I might just get a second vanagon that's a better long term vehicle, and start to sell off what I've got, and just go from there. I can do that within my year 1 budget. Once I sell off this thing, and my rabbit.
I've got time to do my homework, and I'm pretty sure I'll end up hitting those of you up with your new motors to let me visit and take me for a spin so I can see what they feel like in person.
I've never heard of vanistan, but I'll read up on it for sure. Can you post a link in this thread?
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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0to60in6min
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Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'd still like to see the original ad for that van ,how was it listed ? In my opinion a stock rebuild is best in California ,be it G/W - Rocky - or the guy at the corner garage who knows WBX's. Buy a rebuild from a local shop so they can tune it and stand behind it when it breaks.
I run a 2.1 DJ everyday and find it to be very reliable. It rarely gets babied but always maintained.
My Camper has a 2.2 Subaru in it ,which I like but getting it past smog is always an adventure. My WBX smog 1st time every time.
Personally until pushed ,I'd drive that WBX until it starts leaving you stranded.
I only put a Subaru in my camper because a screaming deal came along . I was set to build a GW 2.4 and was able to get a 2.2 Subaru installed for less money.
I am with the Mad Spaniard ,sell that thing and cut your losses ,the money you lose will be less than the on going rust repair for the next couple of years, if you had paid $1500.00 for that van I'd have another opinion.
Next time ask for advice before you buy .
Happy T day
Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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TequilaSunSet
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: Philippines
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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NOTHING WRONG WITH A TIN TOP !!! 
Fix it, drive it, enjoy it... you just might keep it...
You can always make a more stealth camper down the road (I'm not biased in any way  )
It has a Westy interior just no pop top
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Don't harsh my mellow...
1985 Hightower Vanagon 1.8T- Gone
1972 Panel Bus- Gone
1967 Bug- Gone
1964 Euro Sunroof Bug- Gone
1969/72/63 Sunroof Bug- Gone
1975 Brazilian Bug in the Philippines 🇵🇭- New to me |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 16CV's wrote: |
| Next time ask for advice before you buy . |
True. To be honest, The van's fine. If I didn't find a "good deal" I may have never made the jump. This is a learning experience for me, and I'm still within my projected comfortable budget. (Shrugs) I've set myself up to "fail forward" with this project. I'm now much more willing to travel far to find the right Vanagon, and look forward to using this rusty beast as my transportation as I do it. And now I have an excuse to have 2 Vanagons for a little while.
I'll most likely be taking a look at that high quality 1988 Carat in San Mateo next weekend, after the rust bucket gets out of the mechanic. We'll drive up with one Van, and maybe drive back down with two. Who knows.
Happy Thanksgiving!
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| We'll drive up with one Van, and maybe drive back down with two. Who knows. |
there you go... nobody warn you about that.. heh? you get hooked without knowing it...
don't worry ... me too... I am on my#5 now...
so Double Welcome to Samba soon?
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Reading up on the Vanistan. The motors are really pretty. Will be searching around the Samba for maintenance on it, and find out if it's Cali Smoggable, which I doubt. Price is good, and seems like the Tencent takes a lot of pride in his work. Thanks for the heads up! I've got a lot more homework to do.
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1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Nevermind. Looks like a few of the Vanistan motors passed. That's really appealing. Still, I'd want to work with a local shop on the motor so that they can stand behind there work just as you said Stacey. the 2.1 DJ doesn't sound like a bad option either. Boosting from 90 HP to 112 HP would be fine. I have no problem running midrange octane, that's what I run in my Rabbit, and it sounds like this is the sweetspot for MPG too for me.
Are the 2.1 DJ motors available in the US? This is sounding like the strongest motor candidate yet, for my needs. I'd just worry about Cali Smog with this thing, which I'm trying to find out now
Wow, I'm really glad you guys are bringing other things to my attention on here.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9800
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Abelabelabel wrote: |
| These are good things to consider. What's your MPG with the Gowesty 2.2?... |
22-23 on regular gas.
I'm not against conversions, they make a lot sense for some -- but [could you tell there'd be a 'but'?] your posts suggest you are and will be having work performed by a shop.
IMO conversions make the most sense when they are DIY - otherwise the costs can get big and the outcomes and future service less certain.
10c engines weren't an option when I got mine. If you go that route you'll want to plan ahead to allow for his current lead time [same is true of Lucas/GoWesty]. |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Stacy - how's the ride on the Subaru engine vs. The 2.1 DJ? Pros/cons in your opinion?
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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The 1988 wolsfburg has been sold. Seller can't remember their samba Login.
I've found a 1990 Bluestar Wolfsburg this on craigslist. The motor looks like it's about through it's lifespan at 260K. But possibly no rust, and it looks like it has power everything. I hate the upholstery, but replacing seat covers is going to be easier than replacing sheet metal. I'm really impressed with what I saw on sewfine, and I think I can wrestle these chairs no problem over a few weeks to give me something to keep busy while I save up for the conversion.
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4715301717.html
I'll be checking this out soon, with keener eyes.
Will keep you posted.
Happy Black Friday. Hope you all had a fantastic holiday!
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| 0to60in6min wrote: |
unless you're really hooked on a Subie engine and not considering anything else...
there are other options that use about half of your budget such as Vanistan engine, GW engine or a full rebuild etc etc
and leave the other half for other things |
0 to 60, I think you've enlightened me. The more I read about the Vanistan motors, the more I want one. The price is right, and the quality seems to be there. Installation will be easier for my mechanic to do, saving me time (money) and labor. Also these engines are H-O-T. It's looking like I can probably manage Smog too.
It sounds like the engine's are made to have improved reliability, and if they're built around the original waterboxer then maintenance can be handled by local mechanics. Anyone with questions has gotten really matter-of-fact answers from the engine creator himself. I think I've finally got all the pieces of the puzzle here. Will be doing a little more research on finding a potential van to dump a vanistan into. That is unless someone wants to try and persuade me back to a turn-kery Subaru or Turn-Key 1.8 Both of which will run me $15 - $20K to have a pro do it right with a 0 miles rebuilt engine.
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1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
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61Scout
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing against Vanistan, but you should communicate with these vendors yourself... get a feel for them, ask them some questions.
I ended up going with Rocky for a custom build. One of the convincing factors for me was that he's in the same state and so I could avoid shipping charges by picking up the lump myself. Even got the shop tour when I went down there to pick it up- which was awesome  , thanks Rocky! Lemme tell you, the man definitely knows his stuff.
The consensus I believe overall are the quality rebuilders (in no order) are: GW, Vanistan, RJE, and Suburban? IIRC
If you can drive to GW for example you might save shipping charges and also be physically closer should any issues arise. Just something to consider.
Oh, and welcome aboard!
-Kevin
_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Howdy. I feel like I've "bought" myself some time with my current van. It goes to the mechanic on Tuesday to figure out what the game plan is.
The van looks good overall, and it's fun to drive with the stock motor.
Who knows what I'll end up with. If the upgraded waterboxer or vanistan engine can be bought and installed for under $8K, and without putting the Van out of commission for months, I think my decision has been mostly made. I really desire putting a 0 miles engine in as replacement when I'm ready. Still, I'll do some shopping around. I'm not looking for the best. I'm looking for the best experience. And so far every step of this Vanagon Obsession has been a blast, and I've only owned one for a week.
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1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge" |
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madspaniard
Samba Member
Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Abelabelabel wrote: |
Howdy. I feel like I've "bought" myself some time with my current van. It goes to the mechanic on Tuesday to figure out what the game plan is.
The van looks good overall, and it's fun to drive with the stock motor.
Who knows what I'll end up with. If the upgraded waterboxer or vanistan engine can be bought and installed for under $8K, and without putting the Van out of commission for months, I think my decision has been mostly made. I really desire putting a 0 miles engine in as replacement when I'm ready. Still, I'll do some shopping around. I'm not looking for the best. I'm looking for the best experience. And so far every step of this Vanagon Obsession has been a blast, and I've only owned one for a week. |
If you install a rebuilt waterboxer then make sure you go over your cooling system replacing all the hoses and radiator if original or in bad shape. This is critical if you want to make sure your $8,000 engine investment does not go down the drain the first trip after installation because you blow a hose and lose the coolant. This is recommended by most engine rebuilders.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD
"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali |
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Abelabelabel
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2014
Posts: 336
Location: Santa Ana, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again for all the advice.
Here are my top 3 candidates for the next Vanagon. Please feel free to tell me why these might be good/bad choices.
#1 1990 VW Transporter in Pacific Beach.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/cto/4770104108.html
Pros: Close, cheap asking price is very reasonable at $4k without negotiating, low mileage 133K. Current motor *probably* has some life left in it so I can take my time getting ready for a replacement.
Cons: Same trim as current van, but no table. Can I jerry rig one? Found something on the thread about installing it. Figure I might be able to swap some parts between current van and this one. Reupholstery is probably necessary. Other than that, Van's body may be clean. This van may not have AC, which could be a deal breaker.
#2 1990 Bluestar from Riverside/Pomona
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4715301717.html
Pros: Ideal model with power everything, and table. It's close, and is still an attractive asking price before negotiating at $4800.
Cons: Extremely high mileage, so this van would be parked and babied while I get all the mechanicals ready for an engine replacement. Interior needs some work. Current owners have not completed transfer of title or smog. So if I'm really interested, I will wait to actually buy the van until both are done by them, and they are able to provide bill of sale. Current Owner is "supposedly" in Hawaii, and thought he could ship the vehicle. Was driven from Texas, and is sitting. Will most likely test drive this vehicle tomorrow, depending on how shady the guys who are holding the vehicle seem.
#3 Low Mileage 1990 Carat in Cupertino.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4778258059.html
Pros: Car looks very clean inside and out. My "ideal" model. Engine only has 117K(!) and may be drivable for a while on the current motor before replacing. Current owner has a lot of paperwork on work done on vehicle.
Cons: $7500 asking price, although it's pretty consistent with other vans in this condition, maybe a little better. Is just a Con because of first purchase putting in this cash for a second van stings a little. Is also a Salvage title from accident from PO in 2004. I'm not sure what to think about this, as they may not have been worth much in 2004 but will discuss with the owner. Lastly, Cupertino is about 5 hours away from me. This will require planning, and a possible train ride/flight to see in person. But then there's the road trip back. Is that really a con?
Alright, let's see what happens. I'll keep you guys posted. Also, thanks again for being awesome.
-Abel
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL / Carat Interior / Auto - White "Daily"
1990 Vanagon Carat / manual / Cherry Red "Bella Rouge"
Last edited by Abelabelabel on Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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