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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32367 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Gizmoman Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1553 Location: Nevada
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Dave,
The gowesty units are much cheaper as the price includes both units. Van Cafe's price is for one only.
I'd pick the gowesty bits and install them with the logo upside down. I don't care for advertisements in my engine bay. _________________ 82 Vanagon Westy - AAZ 1.9 TD, HE200 Holset, WAIC, 27.75 dia tires, Electric power steering, 5-speed AAP w/.078 5th
Oversize spare carrier - stock location (no longer for sale). |
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big toe Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2013 Posts: 117 Location: Richmond, VA
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I used rails from a 914. They're cheap and not hard to find, although they do need a bit different fuel line routing. _________________ 57 R50, 60 R60, 65 Tempest, 66 Bul, 67 R69, 72 Combat, 73 Eldo, 91 SS, 91 Westy, KTM 950A, etc |
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trip'n Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2009 Posts: 78 Location: springfield mo
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:37 am Post subject: |
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running van cafes since 2011 w/o any problems
+
i kinda like those boys
fast...courteous..service
even though i do prefer da famous amos _________________ 1990 vanagon gl/tintop....2nd owner
rocky jennings 2.3 & throttle body
rocky jennings transmission
10c/rmw exhaust
10c oil cooler
tires/wheels/grill..parts..and cookies..
van cafe
2 loons at roy rogers in springfield mo
paul blandford... wrench n skills |
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nacradriver Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2009 Posts: 760 Location: Ventura, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: |
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I went with the Van Cafe version.... _________________ Güdrun -1989 Westfalia - 2013 - 2018
Petra - 1985 Vanagon - 1985 to 1991
Zisa - 1974 VW Van "Bus" - 1974 to 1985 |
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furrylittleotter Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2008 Posts: 1506 Location: West Seattle
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:37 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't worry to much a bout the threaded bits. Rarely do they leak.
Hard to beat the Gowesty ones, especially with the Turkey day sale. plus they look so cool even I want one and Im running a Suby!
Neil2 |
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djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32367 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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msinabottle Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3492 Location: Denver Area, Colorado
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: One and Done? |
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I went with and would still go with the Van Cafe--seamless, one-piece metal. If you're getting rid of the perfectly serviceable nylon ones to prevent the POSSIBILITY of disaster, the Go Westy version would still have a FAINTER possibility of disaster. I went for FAINTEST.
and
My call, but, my thinking...
Best! _________________ 'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence." |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.
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One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't.
That said I just purchased a set of Go Westy ones. |
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The Machinist Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2009 Posts: 42 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: Re: One and Done? |
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msinabottle wrote: |
I went with and would still go with the Van Cafe--seamless, one-piece metal. If you're getting rid of the perfectly serviceable nylon ones to prevent the POSSIBILITY of disaster, the Go Westy version would still have a FAINTER possibility of disaster. I went for FAINTEST.
My call, but, my thinking...
Best! |
I make Van Cafe's fuel rails. I take that risk very seriously. I leak test every single fuel rail at 90 PSI before I take them over to the guys at Van Cafe. |
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The Machinist Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2009 Posts: 42 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
bluebus86 wrote: |
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.
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One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't. |
This sounds interesting. I searched for a picture of the 914 rails, but couldn't find one. I would like to see what they look like to see if I can improve the design on mine. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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The Machinist wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
bluebus86 wrote: |
The old TypeIV all metal injection rails found in some baywindow vans and the 914 car make excellent vanagon fuel rails, and being all metal have no leak issues.
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One thing I like about these older ones is that because of their extra width and the slight spread angle for the end nipples the hoses lay a bit neater. Seems like others could duplicate this easily enough but they don't. |
This sounds interesting. I searched for a picture of the 914 rails, but couldn't find one. I would like to see what they look like to see if I can improve the design on mine. |
The Bay Window rails are just made out of tubing and are brazed or silver soldered. A test ports as shown wouldn't be necessary since the Vanagon has a test port in another location.
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Snort Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005 Posts: 1957 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a side-by-side.
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61Scout Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011 Posts: 1297 Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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The Machinist Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2009 Posts: 42 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Snort wrote: |
Here is a side-by-side.
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Interesting. These don't even look like they perform the same function, though. The black plastic rail has a larger volume chamber. Does the 2.1 run OK with the type 4 rails? It seems like they would mess with the fuel injection flow.
As far as the orientation of the ports, the outer angled ports would complicate machining considerably. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like you could take the bay rail and make a splice in the center to get the spread right for the Vanagon intakes. Everything would fit after that. As far as machining something with the same kinds of angles, yes that would be a problem. Does the volume chamber actually have a function? Don't know what the 914 rails look like so can't comment on those. |
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The Machinist Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2009 Posts: 42 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I always assumed the chamber was a sort of buffer to smooth the fuel flow and keep constant pressure. Otherwise the fuel rail seems superfluous. Why not just run the lines directly? I have read that hot-rodded 914s starve for fuel because the chamber is too small on the stock fuel rails. |
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61Scout Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2011 Posts: 1297 Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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The size of the chamber is not important as long as it doesn't restrict the 8mm flow anywhere. The lines will be solid with fuel and the pressure controlled by the regulator.
Btw, if anyone is interested in some details... My little homemade fuel rail ^ there is made from all off-the-shelf parts totaling about $20 for both rails (minus the gauge). They're just distribution rails for air lines (can find on ebay or amazon) and then the fittings themselves... which can be found at any hardware store, though cheaper to buy in bulk of course. On the long ends are threaded holes too, one of which you can see I attached a gauge, the other end just has a plug. Adding the permanent gauge does add a little weight and as such I plan to build a bracket on that side, but the manifold w/o the gauge is plenty light enough to be supported by the hoses like the original.
Kevin _________________ 1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu |
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Snort Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2005 Posts: 1957 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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I've read many comments about how that large chamber must be flow related, nobody has ever come up with a reasonable explanation to sustain that theory. Fuel doesn't compress so adding volume to the system doesn't make sense from a buffering standpoint. The fuel pump is dumping plenty of fuel back into the tank to maintain correct pressure so any high demand for fuel ought to be easily handled by the pump. My own theory is that whoever was in charge of production and tooling for this unit decided it would add strength to the nylon/plastic whatever it's made of to keep the joints between the body and the nipples strong or in other words it just made sense in their materials/method analysis.
For fun I chopped a piece out of one of these Type 4 rails and joined it with fuel line. The angled inlet/outlet parts gave me no advantage in routing fuel lines in fact I unbent them slightly to make the lines fit better on the right side of the motor. With only one of them in place on a stock 2.1 there is absolutely no difference in the performance of the motor. I can't see adding two more clamps to the system being a good thing so until I can get around to sleeving and soldering the joint I'm currently running the Van Cafe rails and holding on to the Type 4 ones for a backup injector project which may or may not ever happen. Thanks "The Machinist" for making these, they just fit and work and give peace of mind. |
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