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WD-40 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006 Posts: 1178 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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earthquake wrote: |
Has any body ever made a sump that has tubes for air to flow through to help with cooling like a "True cool" automatic trans pan? I was working on my own deep sump and thought I add tubes in the pan for added cooling. I even thought about using a flat plate and bolting a Auto trans pan for the sump.
http://www.transmissioncoolers.us/14200.html
Casey |
For a formed sheet steel pan, running tubes through like that is a quick and easy way to add lots of surface area.
For cast aluminum parts, you just include external fins in your original castings and you're done, with no additional machining/welding steps needed.
I'm not sure the additional work to weld aluminum tubes into a cast aluminum sump would be worth it... nor am I aware of any formed steel VW deep sumps? _________________ "The new Volkswagen 1303. We've made so many improvements, they're beginning to show."
Last edited by WD-40 on Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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sambabus Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2009 Posts: 324 Location: N. Cal
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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vugbug68 wrote: |
Sumps keep oil down at the pickup tube at all times, at least that's the idea. Before I added a sump, my oil light would come on from hard cornering. On my super I have a thin 1 liter sump that does the job. |
X2
And forget about much cooling. As always, if it isn't broken don't fix it. _________________ 1971 Westy, 2017cc 78.4 x 90.5 Tims Stage 1 plus 42x37, CB 44IDF's, 135 mains, 175 airs, F111, 50 idles, Engle 110, 30mm, 009, single QP, DD CHT 300*f, VDO oil always 180* Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=541370
1970 convertible bug, 1835cc, single 40IDF, disks.
Symptoms Solved and Fixed http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=551358 |
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jsturtlebuggy Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005 Posts: 4496 Location: Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the question about the tubes through a sump. I seen a modified Berg sump done with aluminum tubes by Ray Vallero in Auburn, Ca. It was on a friends car and he said it worked well.
This is one thing that is done on a off road racing engine for controlling oil slosh.
I have also use the BugPack Oil Suction Kit that Glenn mentions with a link to John's site showing it with good success in off road racing engines and my own engines. When you have clearance issues it works. Does not matter if it aluminum, it works and stays in place.
Dry Sump is really the best solution except for having to use a small crank pulley.
I really wish someone would start remaking the Cummins/Isky drysump pump. It was an offset pump that lowered the outside gears to clear a larger crank pulley. I know they work, I knew people that used them with great success. I have not seen one in use in many years. Petersens Publications did articles on them in the first VW book they produce and also the Off Road Fun Cars book. _________________ Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960 |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002 Posts: 12785 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
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so 2110 that never goes over 5000k offroad, better without?
2180 that wont go over 5000k offroad, not needed? _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I just like steel because:
you can solder or braze on the pickup tube
Steel drainplate less likely to bust if hit, and less likely to strip the drain plug.
And prior bad experiences trying to weld aluminum oil pans back together |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Hi all thanks for all the replys. I have decided to go ahead and use my 1.5L sump but I do have a question. Now once the engine has been put together and the sump fitted will it be ok (will the external sump take the weight) to stand the engine on the sump and to jack the engine up into position by placing the jack under the sump? I don't what to go through all the hassle of fitting the external sump then while jacking the engine up into position it cracks cause it can't take the weight of the engine. Do this makes sense ? |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: |
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kind of hard to put a jack under it if the car is lowered I've done it on my own cars, but jack it up on the lower shock mount is better
Bergs have internal bracing on the 4qt's not sure on 1 1/2's? _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Ok but what I'm getting at here is when installing the engine. Is it ok to lift the engine with a jack with the jack head on the sump plate witch is on the external sump. Will the sump take it if not how are after people installing there engine with the sump installed on them? |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Yea I do it all the time,if it don't hold for that it ain't worth a fuck
don't see how else to pull a motor _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Glad you said that cause that's hiw I was planning on lifting the engine back into the car it's just that someone had told me that the sump wouldn't take the weight of the engine and would collapse? |
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hooker Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 261 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: deep sump |
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In a lot of cases when a person installs a deep sump they will use the original stock mounting studs and the deep sump would have to be the same thickness where the studs come through as stock. If you set the engine on the new deep sump you have the possibility of cracking around the mounting holes especially if you tip the engine off balance due to the wider sump creating more leverage if the weight of the engine is not perfectly centered. Instant oil leaks. This can happen even with the thicker/longer stud mounting type deep sump by breaking the seal between the engine and the added on sump. This creates a "Weeping" type leak that is hard to find. _________________ 2007 NHRA Division 6 Finals Champion air cooled Rabbit P/U rear engine compact/import class, 13.32 sec 1/4 Woodburn, Oregon
Pauter Big Block VW 2610 cc turbo mid engine roadster 9.69 sec @ 147 mph 1/4 PIR Oregon
I spent most my money on women and VW race cars. The rest I wasted. |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:39 am Post subject: |
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For peace of mine I would not jack the engine on the sump.I would install the sump after the engine was installed.But I'v never had a sump so take it for what it's worth. |
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Northof49 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 1759 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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That mini sump looks cool, but would be a bitch to balance a motor on.
Any suggestions as to who has the best mounting system for a deep sump? Do you ever modify what it comes with to something better? What to look for in mounting? _________________ 1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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Greezy Joe Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2010 Posts: 1534 Location: Crawfordville, Fl
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:03 am Post subject: |
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I install my motors with deep sump on and jack it up by the sump plate. No issues at all. Heck if a sump is as flimsy to break during an install it ain't worth putting on the motor. But it does make it a little harder to balance. A motorcycle jack is ideal. _________________ Current:74 Ghia Coupe w/ 2276
71 Ghia Vert w/ 1835
07 GMC Truck
12 Jeep Wrangler
73 Harley FLH 93 cid
89 Harley 883 Sportster (1200)
Owned before: 58, 69 Ghia Coupes, 64 Canvas Sunroof, 68, 72, 73, & 74 Bugs, 63 Single Cab, 65 Bus, 66 & 70 Camper
" Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it'll muffle the sound". |
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