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grandpa pete
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Joined: July 06, 2008
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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jjohnson67
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Joined: November 06, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| No how too that i know off but there is only 1 spot that sandwiches between the body and pan. The corner by the jack point. Alot of the ones that I've seen leave the original area and but weld. How bad is the pan? |
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grandpa pete
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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jjohnson67
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Joined: November 06, 2012
Posts: 335
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Yuck. I understand I will be cheating and using fiberglass in a spot.  |
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57BLITZ
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Joined: June 12, 2012
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Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| jjohnson67 wrote: |
| there is only 1 spot that sandwiches between the body and pan. The corner by the jack point. |
You are talking the areas of the pan that is between the CHASSIS and the body . . . like that "Tab" that comes off of the torsion housing, right?
But do not forget the sections of the pans that are welded to the top of the ends of the "Napoleon's Hat".
Grandpa Pete, I replaced the pans on my Ghia without removing the body . . . sorta. I had to unbolt everything just as you would if you were going to remove the body, then I raised the body slightly on one side in order to get to those two corners where the welds had to be ground away to remove the old pans. The only thing it saved me was having to find a place to store the body . . . everything was unbolted.
If you don't want to unbolt the body, you will have to trim and butt weld in those corner areas . . . and maybe burn the pan gasket in the process.
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youngnstudly
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Joined: October 21, 2005
Posts: 833
Location: Whine Country (SF Bay area)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I've replaced both pans in a bug and in my Ghia years back, and neither car had the body removed or unbolted. In my opinion, the proper way would be to separate the body and pan just enough to replace the pan gasket and slip the new pan halves in place, but you can get away without doing that if need be.
Be advised there is a lot more cutting, welding, and fitting when welding just the "tubs" in place, and obviously things are tighter to reach in certain areas. Welding in short runs will be needed on the top and bottom sides, (evenly spaced, more welds in the corners, stagger weld placement from the top and bottom, etc), but you can run the"stitch" welds that will keep heat down so you don't melt the pan gasket.
Don't be afraid to cool the weld area if it's immediately next to the pan gasket. I never use plug welds in a situation like this as a simple 1" to 1-1/2" long weld proves to be much stronger while taking only slightly longer to finish. A proper bead doesn't even require much finish work.
It also depends on how much pan you actually need to replace. If there is a point in the stamping that you can lap the new pan over the old one a 1/2" without it being obvious from the underside that you are matching the old pan with the new, use it. If you need to replace the entire pan half, I'd remove the body or at least split the body from the pan. Same goes if there is any rust in the heater channels.
I found a good spot to lap both pan halves at the same point across the chassis of my Ghia, so both sides would look identical from the top and bottom. I would recommend using weld-thru prime (I like SEM brand) as well. A light coat of seam sealer brushed smoothly over the top, covered by a durable undercoating will leave things looking completely un-detectable.
Just my 2 cents. 
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Body on ; floorplan replacement |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
| I found many threads on replacing pans ;body off.....Anyone have a HOW-TO thread for replacing pans with the body on . |
I've done it several times in the past before (full length pans). It's not that bad of a job, other than you're spending a LOT of time on your knees and bent over. The key is taking your time to get it to fit right, as you'll need to do some trimming. I normally feed the pan half in to the front first, then swing the rear half in place. Use the body to pan bolts to verify you're in the right place, and to help hold the pan in place. You'll have 2 short welds where the pan halfs join the existing floor parts, but, that's about it. Trim off the rear triangle shaped piece in the rear, as it'll make the pan fit an easier job. 
I too just stitch weld tack (1 inch welds) along the tunnel, rather than drill a bunch of holes for plug welding. By doing this, you save a bunch of time, and seam sealer applied on top and bottom will hide everything. IF you're doing the left floor pan, pull the pedal assembly out, so you have room to work.
I hope this helps.
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grandpa pete
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johnr156
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Joined: April 06, 2013
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Location: Dixon, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Bug Me Videos floor pan replacement dvd covers both body on and body off floor pan replacements. |
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grandpa pete
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Joined: July 06, 2008
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Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| johnr156 wrote: |
| The Bug Me Videos floor pan replacement dvd covers both body on and body off floor pan replacements. |
I know someone locally I can borrow that from ....... cool ; thks
Now I have to figure out where I stored that VCR box thing 
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drscope
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Just my 2 cents, but I would pull the body off and unless I was in a real hurry I would also pull the engine and maybe the beam and tranny too. It's a lot more work sort of, but in the end you can do a much better job of it.
With the body off it's much easier to get to things and you don't have to be bent up into crazy positions trying to get to things.
One important thing many people overlook is removing the paint that comes on the pans before repainting them with something better. Basically the paint that comes on them is only there to keep them from rusting during transport. So your new metal will last a lot longer if you remove that stuff and properly coat the pans with something much better.
You could do that prior to installation, but you will still need to get under the car and fix the areas near the tunnel when you weld it. Plus you want to put some good seam sealer down there too.
One of the easiest ways I found to remove the old pans was to turn the pan upside down and then I used a wide brick chisel right along side the tunnel to drive the old pans off. (brick chisel in air hammer works great)
This sort of tears the old metal around each spot weld and they come right off. Then all you have to do is run down that lip with an angle grinder and knock off whats left of the spot welds.
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57BLITZ
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Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| drscope wrote: |
| Just my 2 cents, but I would pull the body off . . . |
I know that you weren't asking this Grandpa Pete, but . . . there is NO WAY I would want to do pans with the body on again!
Grinding, wire-brushing, welding, and painting INSIDE the car is NO FUN!!!
If the car has an interior and headliner, you get to do some clean-up also!
You will probably need to replace the brake line if you do the left side . . . piece of cake with the body off!
In end, you do not really save much by leaving the body on.
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GB2S
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Location: Omaha
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Grandpa Pete, I also have a 63 ragtop. My question is this. While I see the benefits of removing the body from the rest of the vehicle, my biggest fear is shearing a bolt off.
While I'm not trying to jack this thread, would you guys who have done this give you experiences, your does and don't.
Thanks Geoff
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grandpa pete
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johnr156
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Location: Dixon, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Before removing my body I asked a mechanic friend of mine the best procedure for repairing a broken bolt. Anticipating I would break 1 or more body bolts. In a serious tone he replied "don't break any". He told me to use a lot of patience, plenty of PB Blaster and take my time. He was right. I didn't break a 1. Go back and forth with a socket in very small amounts. A few degrees at first. Spray it and keep repeating this and all of them will eventually come out. Some of them took me a couple of hours. Thus the extreme patience.  |
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carcrazed
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I have done my '65 and my '61 both with the body on and were successful. I also had the heat channels removed which made it a ton easier. My only hang-up was the rear part of the pans, but it is possible. take your time and little by little.
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inzel
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Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
| johnr156 wrote: |
| The Bug Me Videos floor pan replacement dvd covers both body on and body off floor pan replacements. |
I know someone locally I can borrow that from ....... cool ; thks
Now I have to figure out where I stored that VCR box thing |
You can also rent the bugme videos as well from their site. I have a digital copy you can borrow if you want. Just PM me and Ill throw a link on my website that you can just click on to watch.
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66 Bug
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57BLITZ
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Posts: 2385
Location: DEEK - U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| johnr156 wrote: |
| Before removing my body I asked a mechanic friend of mine the best procedure for repairing a broken bolt. Anticipating I would break 1 or more body bolts. In a serious tone he replied "don't break any". He told me to use a lot of patience, plenty of PB Blaster and take my time. He was right. I didn't break a 1. Go back and forth with a socket in very small amounts. A few degrees at first. Spray it and keep repeating this and all of them will eventually come out. Some of them took me a couple of hours. Thus the extreme patience. |
VERY good advice!!
And if they do break, a MIG works GREAT!! Check out this video . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvMfoP8c9c
The thing he missed . . . just as soon as the broken bolt starts to move, give it some penetrating oil and keep turning it back and forth, back and forth just until you feel resistance and keep feeding it the oil. It took that guy about five minutes to remove the broken bolt and it turned out much better than trying to drill and tap.
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youngnstudly
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Location: Whine Country (SF Bay area)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 57BLITZ wrote: |
VERY good advice!!
And if they do break, a MIG works GREAT!! Check out this video . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvMfoP8c9c
The thing he missed . . . just as soon as the broken bolt starts to move, give it some penetrating oil and keep turning it back and forth, back and forth just until you feel resistance and keep feeding it the oil. It took that guy about five minutes to remove the broken bolt and it turned out much better than trying to drill and tap. |
X2! I use my tig welder, and either candle wax or ATF/Acetone (50/50 mix) while the part is still hot from welding. Hell, you could probably even stick weld the nut to the broken bolt if you didn't have access to tig or mig welders.
I found out a long time ago that EZ outs only seem to work for certain things, and the odds of screwing up somewhere during the process (or worse, snapping the EZ out off!) is far too high when compared to the results from welding a nut in place. The heat really works in your favor with broken exhaust studs too. I've never lost a battle to a broken stud using this method, and I have removed my share of them.
Body and fender bolts can be difficult to remove (running board bolts too), but patience is your friend here...unless you like trying to remove bolts that are snapped off and at the very bottom of the car! Preparing days ahead can make things go much more smoothly (No swear words used!) 
Good luck!
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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It is a LOT easier to be able to cut, grind, weld, prep, paint, undercoat a pan both inside and out when you can flip it over or at least stand it on it's side. working upside down is hard, and not conducive to a quality job.
I would prefer to remove the body if I were intending to do the best job. patching up a daily driver maynot require such quality detail work, so for that I would leave the body on.
But for the really nice car, that I would want the best quality job (ie totally impossible to tell it was repaired) I would certainly remove the body for best access. besides once body is off, I wont have to worry about protecting the body, glass and interior from welding and grinding sparks, over spray and such.
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