1776 Sand Rail - Weber DGAV vs. Zenith 32NDIX P010?

DavidWymore

I have both carbs...I'm a pretty good wrench, 4x4 background and I also run a machine and welding shop. I am new to VWs, I've been reading up a lot.

The progressive is newish but needs jetting and is missing the secondary idle jet and holder entirely. The Zenith has been sitting for a long time, but at least it has a good offroad air cleaner with spun aluminum hat instead of the junk K&N box cleaner that's on the Weber. The good cleaner is going on whichever carb I choose.

I have two manifolds, the one on the engine with the Weber is aluminum with heat cross tubes not hooked up (yet), but it doesn't have heat to carb. The one on the zenith is chromed steel, only has one boot on one side, other side is solid. No heat tubes. My understanding is either get the heated manifold and hook the heat tubes up to the header properly, or jet it pig rich with either carb. Ideas/suggestions/prefences/input much appreciated.

I have a thread on the whole buggy over in the offroad forum as well.

Thanks

RailBoy · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject:

I would use neither carb of intake...

If you want to keep it single carb, go with a Dellerto DRLA 36 on a Reline Intake.. They make the best single carb intake and the description is below is why...

I run a Single 44 IDF on a Redline Intake and in winter on a 2110 and have no issues, other intakes do not compare for they do not heat the base of the carb, but just the runners, which is to late in the game.... RB

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Deluxe-Centermount-Intake-Manifold-Kit-Weber-IDF-p/99004.315.htm
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[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]
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DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:21 am Post subject:

Nice! Is there not a heated manifold for the DGAV?...or the zenith?

RailBoy · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:34 am Post subject:

If you note in the photographs there are none that i came across since I have been messing with single carbed engines...

I have had my Rail which I can't fit dual carbs on for the engine compartment is to narrow for them, so I have been running a single carb on it since 1986..

The best single carb intake I have found is the Redline... And, as you can see in the photo, the heat goes up and around the base of the carb, even heating the carb which is what you want..

DRD also sells this intake as well as Redline, but it is up to you on were you get it, thing is this, if you engine is new, put a call into DRD or email aircooled.net, you maybe able to get away with running a 40 IDF with the proper vents, which would be small for the carb, the vents are based on valve size as a baseline....

Oh, something else, if you are into the max heat, you will hear that you should plumb your own heat risers... The best is to go off like # 2 or # 4 cylenders exhaust manifold into the intake then out to the collector so you get a full circilation of heated exhaust going through the intake, not just a pulse back and forth which is what i have, but works.... Yea, I made my own on my Tri-Mill off number #2 and #4 like stock...

On both those carbs you have both are considered obsoleet now days, and tuning them is a bitch I hear plus do to wear and tear that is already on them you maybe better off just getting a new carb as well if you are into "new" stuff... That is what I did, got a brand new intake and carb all at once for a new engine, but the point, the carb and intake will last a few engines.... RB
_________________
[quote="smitty24"]"HELP, I ported my own heads and now have fire coming out my ass" .[/quote]
Shocked

modok · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:14 am Post subject:

The zenith WAS a favorite for doing.....that sort of thing. But....if the manifold is the all steel one I think it is, it's too big.

There is a cast aluminum manifold that fits the zenith, that's what you want if you decide to try it. Like this
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1700655

esde · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:25 am Post subject:

I'd spend real money on a nice manifold and rebuild kit for the zenith. It's a really nice carb, even though it's an old design. Jets are a little hard to find though, maybe see what's in there first?

GTV · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:08 am Post subject:

The Zenith is an awesome carb. Smooth as butter. Use an individual runner manifold for the PO10 carb. With intact heat risers. I don't think they are made anymore, but they are common in the classifieds or swap meets. I've never seen one an individual runner Zenith manifold in aluminium, only steel.
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DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:01 am Post subject:

Thanks for all your input guys! Still open to more ideas and criticism.

I haven't opened the Zenith to inspect yet, but it was running in this buggy on an 1835? previously...several years ago.

My goal is to get it working as close to perfect as I can without spending much on it...I have fabrication abilities and equipment. I'm thinking about ducting hot exhaust air into a carb heater box/air filter adapter that will also keep dirt out of the linkage. Secondary got stuck open on the Weber due to wet sand getting flung on it. Other idea I had was to make a carb spacer and run heat tubes through it. As a matter of fact, with the apparent dearth of heated manifolds, maybe someone should start manufacturing some like that, that could be added to existing manifolds.

DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:14 am Post subject:

Zenith

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Weber Mani

GTV · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:46 am Post subject:

This is the style manifold you need:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1714978
Note the unhacked heat risers and individual runner design. This manifold requires stock aluminium end castings, which allows you to properly port match them to the heads.
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DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:02 am Post subject:

GTV · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:19 am Post subject:

DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:26 am Post subject:

So no heat to carb base...if hardly anyone makes the manifolds with heat to the carb, is it really that big of an issue?

I went out and looked at the rail, looks tricky to plumb the air through a spacer and back out on the alternator side...and noticed my alt is being held on by a hose clamp, oi. Anyway, I was thinking a carb spacer between manifold and carb could be easily plumbed with hot oil from the external oil cooler system. This would be a pretty easy part to make, and could be installed and plumbed by the end user without welding, etc. Downside is exhaust is hot as soon as the engine is running, and oil takes a bit to heat up, I would assume.

Thanks

DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject:

John pointed me to this one, my problem was just that couldn't find it. This manifold carries heat to the carb base, not just the bottom of the manifold, which is key in making a Progressive really run good. The Weber was designed to run on a water heated Pinto manifold. Cold fuel falls out of suspension and becomes liquid.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Deluxe-Center-Mount-Intake-Manifold-Kit-Weber-DFEV-p/99004.410b.htm

DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject:

Now I just gotta decide of making it RIGHT is worth the $200.00 manifold...

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject:

If I had to chose between the Zenith or the Weber, I would take the Zenith, hands down. Never was a fan of the Weber progressive carbs. Zeniths are pretty stable when bounced around. Good for your buggy application.
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DavidWymore · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject:

modok · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:

The steel isolated manifold is good too, for smaller engines or lower rpms.
With the steel isolated manifold I would not even worry about heat, the velocity will move the fuel along so much better it won't be a problem at any temperature YOU will still want to drive that thing.

I never can remember what size the venturis are in those but I think pretty small. Past a certain point of cc and rpm then the isolated manifold setup is too restrictive and thus the aluminum plenum manifold is preferred.

Your big steel manifold is for trying to make the thing into a fire breathing racecar, which if you did you would not want to use a tiny antique carb anyway, so it's a museum piece or scrap metal IMO

GTV · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject:

They come with 24mm vents. Some Porsche Zeniths used 28's. I started with 24's, tried 28's but could not get it to tune right. I scored some 25's in a $10 swap meet carb, they worked great. Had a lot of fun tuning it with an LM-1. My engine wasn't anything special, stock and original other than the carb, a header and 010. 28's might work on a larger engine, especially in a light car.
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modok · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:18 pm Post subject:

Ah, 24mm, thanks.

So the isolated manifold you have flow for about 70 hp

plenum manifold then you have flow for 130 hp

The weber progressive has enough flow for 160 hp, which of course is absurd, and that's another reason they aren't the best (too big) But being a progressive you just don't use the secondary most of the time so it works, but for offroad??? naw. You don't have that kind of foot control going through ditches Laughing


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1776 Sand Rail - Weber DGAV vs. Zenith 32NDIX P010?
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