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'74 Super Water Leak
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: '74 Super Water Leak Reply with quote

First off this is my first post here, although ive lurked for months. Anyway long story short, i just got my first beetle. It is in pretty good condition i think. floor pans are excellent, engine looks (from what i can tell as a not so mechanically gifted youth) to be good. The starter takes a sec but has no problems for now. The only concern i have right now is that there is definitely semi-major leaks on well, every place but the sun roof. Id get some pictures up if it wasnt five in the morning where i live. But all my window trim is rock hard.

My interior is in damn good shape i think. (its a 40 year old car ok it has some uglier bits) and the wiring is a damn mess. but all the plastic is still in one piece. I want to give it a nice good cleaning but i work 40+ hours a week and dont have a lot of money to show for it. That combined with the rain we've been having has kept me from this. (its also my daily driver).

this brings me back to the main leaking issue. We are supposed to have torrential rains coming tomorrow (in like an hour i guess now, stupid grave yard shifts) and i really like my car to not smell like garbage if you know what i mean. And plus i like the lack of rust as it right now. i went to my local wolfgang store round here and got the trim/rubber/wtfe priced and its a little out of my price range, especially around christmas time. so im gonna cover my beloved brand new (to me) car with a tarp and hope i dont get called into work in the next couple days (i probably will LOL)

BUT. would shelling out a bunch of money for the trim be worth it right now, or should i wait till after i get some of the other restoration type things done first? ive heard its stupid difficult to replace, and i have a small list of stuff i want to get done, i would just like to know a priority i should put this at?

sorry for the lengthy, boring post. Im all jacked up on energy drinks and just got off work so while everyone else sleeps i guess this is what i do lol. Thanks for the input from anyone.
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battont
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: leaks Reply with quote

Ok, a couple of things: First, you may want to back off the energy drinks a little. (just a thought) Second, you mention a sunroof. Unfortunately, that is a prime source of leaks. Having never had a sunroof, I can't comment on the cost or difficulty of replacing any aged/cracked rubber there. (I have a convertible) I had a friend who owned a sunroof bug down on St. Thomas and he just kept an umbrella in the car for when it rained!
I'd first try to determine where the leaking is occurring. It wouldn't make sense to replace stuff that was cheaper or easier first if it was actually leaking somewhere else. Some of the rubber gaskets are harder to replace than others, but I believe the sunroof seal is one of the tougher ones. In the short term, you could just put duct tape around the roof and not open it. that would at least get you through a rain storm or two. If you leave it on through too many really hot days, the glue will come off and you'll need to spend a long time with a bottle of Goo Gone to clean it off.
Occasionally you can span gaps in rubber or whatever with silicone. Shape it some with a wet finger, etc. and let it dry totally before attempting a seal with it. Perhaps others have more thoughts here. (clearly a car cover helps, but its a little bit of time to put on and take off)
Good luck.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, have a 1974 Super Beetle--and I also live in Redding, CA.

First, off, I agree with bat, that your problem is most likely the sunroof that's leaking. I assume it is the factory sunroof, and that one has a "dust" seal all around it. This seal keeps out the dirt--but not water.

VW included four drain hoses and channels to carry away the water, however. After many years, these hoses get plugged and you get a leak from the channels into the cabin. Thehoses are beige in color. Two at the front and two at the rear.

If you open your front bonnet (luggage compartment), you will see the large hinges that hold the hood upright. Using a flashlight, shine the light beyond the hinges, toward what we call "the black hole". You will see a big black hose, and somewhere in the vicinity, a beige-colored hose.

Carefully grab the smaller, beige hose and pull it (from the bottom) until you have the end of it. Blow through this end to see if the air goes through easily. Do this to the hose on the other side, too. If plugged, try to get a length of wire in there to ream it out. Do this reaming nice and easy. Do NOT pull on the hose while doing this, as it will dislodge from the sunroof, and then you will have screwed yourself, big time.

Now, go to the back of the car (inside) and remove the bottom seat. Then get a wooden or plastic wedge between the rear door panel and the interior of the car. Carefully pry the door panel away from the interior of the car. Just do the top and front. At the bottom of the opening at the quarter panel, you will see a beige hose--connected to the metal quarter panel with a clip. Pull the hose from the clip.

Blow in the hose. Do NOT pull on the hose. Is it clear? If not, you will need to clear it with some flexible wire. I tried to clear mine with compressed air and blew the hose end off the drain channel. You don't want to do this Crying or Very sad .

As far as the window rubbers are concerned, separately take a water hose to them, squirt the area and see if they leak--and where. A helper inside the car will be a big help--someone to watch to see exactly where the water is getting in.

Temporarily seal any leaky windows with electrical tape. Clean the surfaces to be taped, first. Remove the tape after our storm passes in a few days. You can also use electrical tape to seal up the sunroof, too. You can overlap electrical tape--and it peels off very easily--if not left on for weeks.

If you need help, I have some time today (tomorrow will be too windy and rainy). I can meet you in some public parking lot--or even Wolfgangs if you're worried about kidnapping, or whatever. Rolling Eyes

A tarp may blow away in the heavy winds we're expecting. So, go with the tape. Get two rolls, at least. It will look funny, but it's only temporary.

Tim
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woah cool to see someone from redding. Ive got my bug in my moms garage for the next couple days. How you enjoying the storm Tim? lol. my sun roof hardly leak. it looks like it has been replaced by PO. there is in fact moisture on it but it doent drip at all. there is definately a leak on the back window, and ive had gorilla tape over it since the first rain we had since i got the bug. i believe most of the water is coming from the drivers side door. (of course the most expensive part. Rolling Eyes

at this point im gonna leave it in the garage for this storm. ill play with your fancy hoses when the sun comes out, Tim Smile . the garage is way too small... i drove out to the lake with the girlfriend around 7 this morning before the sun came up and while driving there was not much moisture coming at it. (at least the gf didnt complain about it Cool )

thanks for your input guys. Im sure this is going to be a wonderful issue all through winter
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hitest
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reread your post and am confused by most every remark above me. I thought I read your that sunroof is not leaking.

If I am the first to read you right- then we have work to do. Where EXACTLY are you seeing water? Floor? door panels, under each window's "sill," in the trunk above the tank?

The first advice on window rubber is correct. They dry out and create gaps. What isn't said in the silicone repair post is that you are just delaying the inevitable- rust. If rust has started- you are pulling the windows anyway. You can't patch a bike tube with donut- shaped patch around the hole, hoping it will inflate against the tire and seal the air, so why would applying silicone in there be any different? The rusty gap is still saturated with water and creating a silicone dyke simply makes water find another way through. Also, when you do replace the rubber, you've got 3 times the energy removing every bit of that damn silicone! Rubbers are relatively cheap, and take the help from just one friend an hour and a half to replace on 4 windows. The rollups do require more diligence to get a good seal on the channels and scrapers. Door seals dry and leaking? 1/2 hour R & R. Same thing with the vent seals under the hood. The hood's seal itself can be a maddening 1 to 1-1/2 hr. job itself.

Tim is dead-on about the drain tubes. Another trick that may scare you: Wad some tape around the end of a flexible rod and shove it down into the "A" pillar where the drain tubes disappear. When you pull it up, it should be dirty, but dry. I don't have to tell what's happening If you pull the tape ball up and it looks like a muddy, wet rabbit's foot.

I fully agree with the temporary tape ides. 3M Super 33 (from Home Depot) leaves no residue and is quite strong. I wouldn't hesitate to fortify the car temporarily for the storms and attack seals on a better day.

Edit: I see your most recent post just went up before I finished my diatribe... Sunroof seal health is now reminded to all.
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I finally got a chance to get into my bug today and the back window and side quarter windows most definitely need attention asap. Should I take my beetle to a glass shop? Or should I order the rubber and replace it myself? If so could someone give me a link to buy it?
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy your window rubber at Westcost Metric or Wolfsburg West. They sell the best--good enough that you can install it yourself ... with the help of a friend. Bad rubber equals a very difficult time--or fitment issues.

Google this: How to install windows in a Volkswagen Beetle. Find several YouTube videos on how to install the glass. I've not done it yet, but it actually looks quite easy, after looking at the videos. There are also a number of threads on this forum to use as a guide.

You said you didn't have a lot of money to spend now, so this is one way to go. You'll only have to pay for the rubber and a single installment tool and some weed-wacker line, going this route.

Or you can check out a glass shop and ask what they will charge for installing the windows--if you provide the rubber.

Either way, you might want to remove the old rubber and windows, first, because you may have to repair some rust damage to the frames.

Tim
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tim. ill probably try the diy deal. im hoping there isnt too much must, but concidering the amount of water... Embarassed

anyway. i get paid on tuesday. I was quoted something like 90 dollars for the window rubber from the wolfgang place. Tim you said you live in redding? dont suppose youd want to help a n00b out would you? Surprised
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind giving you a hand--slapping the glass as you pull the strings, but when it comes to installing glass, I'm just as much a "noob" as you are.

The key to DIY is checking out those YouTube videos, like I mentioned previously. If you don't check them out and follow those directions, the glass can actually break while installing it. Then you have to get more glass. The rear sides are cheap enough--and plentiful, as well--on The Samba Classifieds. The rear window is a bit more rare--especially for a Super Beetle. So the job has to be done correctly.

Check out those You Tubes, and decide if you want to give it a go. If so, get back here and we can set something up.

Also, I shop Wolfgang's all the time, and they sell good stuff; but when it comes to window rubber--especially if you're installing it yourself--you want window rubber that fits perfectly. I don't know who makes Wolfgang's rubber. On the other hand, I have heard many, many people on here who say that WestCoast Metric and Wolfsburg West have the best fitting window rubber. So, if I were you, I'd definitely buy the product that is going to make the installation process as easy as possible.

Tim
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X2^^^^^

Get proven good rubber!!!! There is a lot of cheap crap on the market, learn this NOW and shop accordingly...... Price is NOT a way to shop for parts, manufacturer and supplier is.

There is little in life more frustrating than crappy rubber!!!

Even good Rubber can make you question your sanity at times.

Listen to Tim!!!

Dave
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. I've been building computers since I was a kid so I know that price is not a good way to shop. I get paid on Tuesday so I'm gonna see if I can't at least get the window glass set up. The door rubber will have to wait for now. :3
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PressY4Pie wrote:
Thanks guys. I've been building computers since I was a kid so I know that price is not a good way to shop. I get paid on Tuesday so I'm gonna see if I can't at least get the window glass set up. The door rubber will have to wait for now. :3


You are not comprehending!

Do NOT BUY YOUR SEAL LOCALLY unless you know its pedigree.

There is junk rubber out there, lots of it and it does not fit properly.

Order from recommended sources or KNOW that your local guy did.
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wasnt planning to get it local. if i did it would be from wolfgang. not sure if thats a known place outside of cali. but up here they are supposidly pretty good. id probably go online to a known good source. i dont plan on getting cheap crap in my bug, even though i dont have much money. starting from the outside in on restoring mostly. (kind of restoring) i havent assessed how much rust will need to be taken but it seems to be mostly minimal. then i need paint. PO somewhere down the line used some canned spray paint. looks fine from a distance but close up, no good. i can pick it off and see the beautiful original marine blue under it. dont know why it was painted tbh. must be something no good under it.

eventually down the line (read tax season) im hoping to get a subaru convert into it Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm

Water cooled Subaru into an air cooled Beetle is not a project for the poor or faint of heart.

Do some serious research and amass many dollars before you begin.
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PressY4Pie
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel did his for under 2k i think. im not planning on speanding more than 3k on the conversion. of course that means there will be somewhere around 4500 speant probably. im mad excited for the conversion. ill probably get a project thread going when i get it started. joel has an awesome work log for his. that ive read through twice now, and there is plenty of other material on aussieveedubbers. they do it a lot over there i guess. it'll be the first i know of round these parts.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey pie first advice is DO NOT buy a jdm motor i went that way and it was such a hassel to get the harness done and then there are jdm specific parts that are not easy to find also if you want to keep it in the price range just have a set mind cause when you start going into the conversion your like ohh i should do this ... then also this .. stick with a SOHC since there the easiest to swap to i got a DOHC and i had to do some "trimming" lol but i torn my whole car down while i was at it new wiring all around rust removal new disc suspension seats floor pans sound proofing and custom fab for the rear since the turbo and intake make it impossible to keep the firewall Rolling Eyes .. just read up on the conversion and plan it well and you should keep within your budget upgrade your brakes and get a kafer bar and suspension is my best suggestion .. tab mark outfrontmotorsports.com you can get just about eerything you need from them
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PressY4Pie wrote:
Should I take my beetle to a glass shop? Or should I order the rubber and replace it myself? If so could someone give me a link to buy it?


I don't think your ready to do a suby conversion yet. That is a heck of a jump from not quite confident about changing window rubber to confident you can pull off a suby swap.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
PressY4Pie wrote:
Should I take my beetle to a glass shop? Or should I order the rubber and replace it myself? If so could someone give me a link to buy it?


I don't think your ready to do a suby conversion yet. That is a heck of a jump from not quite confident about changing window rubber to confident you can pull off a suby swap.


Yeah, the lad needs to lay off the hyper-loony juice and instead pop open a bottle of cop-on.
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