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buying a used motor
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regal beagal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: buying a used motor Reply with quote

Anybody have tips on buying a used performance motor? Would it be messed up to ask ro take the head off to measure the bore, or should I just trust the guy?
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Dr OnHolliday
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trust is earned.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: buying a used motor Reply with quote

regal beagal wrote:
.......... a used performance motor? ...........should I just trust the guy?

Aren't "performance motors" meant to be used and sometimes abused? (isn't that what performance is about?), unless the guy was one of my closest personal friends I'd want to probe that thing really deep before handing over any significant money. Heads off and a look in the oil screen at the very least as well as all the usual engine health checks beforehand IMO.
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regal beagal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well by performance I mean it's built beyond a 1600. He never said performance himself but he did say it was a 1915 with a 120 cam. With low miles. I'm gonna hear it run tomorrow.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

regal beagal wrote:
he did say it was a 1915 with a 120 cam.

Perfect for staying in the slow lane on those leisurly Sunday ice cream runs Confused
Tell yourself what you like but I wouldn't proceed a step further without the previously mentioned diagnosis or at the very least a long "spirited' test drive in his car with that engine installed. Look for smoke, listen for knocks, bring an IR temperature gun, etc.....
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hitest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd also be a little curious if the engine is warm when you get there- as in just got driven to settle some noises, exhaust leaks, etc. I'd try to take it from cold/off to fully warmed to be sure.
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regal beagal
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot quicker than my 1600, but limited due to my transmission.
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Bret2094
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always hate buying used turnkey engines not built from a reputable seller. Just makes me have to tear the whole thing down, but then again, im paranoid as hell. Don't be afraid to negotiate if something isn't quite up to snuff. If it's bad enough dont feel bad about walking away


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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An experienced engine builder can look at the cylinder bases at the case and head studs and determi9ne if it has 94mm pistons. Pop a valve cover. If it does not have dual valve springs with a W-120 cam then don't buy the engine.
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norcalmike
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a used motor from a kid once. He said it ran great and he wanted $300. Looking at his own personal Bug, I was skeptical about how it was run. ( proper tins, tuning, maintenance, etc.)
I offered 150 based on a core price, he accepted.
When I got it home and tore it down for inspection and reseal, I discovered the bottom cylinder deflector tins on the top Shocked
i pulled the heads and found #3 piston burned and the rings, well, you get the idea.

I would never pay anymore than a core price on a used motor from someone I did not know or trust. just my .02
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done some work for Dino Fry ( small block chevy guy) who wrote a well published book on building small blocks.
He said the new GM crate motors are great ( to take apart and build properly) Anything else is a used motor.
My Subaru 2.2 in my Syncro had 60K and lost a set of rod bearings. A used engine is a Used engine.
Let the buyer beware .

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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sell complete used Type 3 engines for $800 because they have so many $25-$200 parts on them. The OP never even told us what they were asking for the engine he is talking about buying?
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crofty
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

norcalmike wrote:
I bought a used motor from a kid once. He said it ran great and he wanted $300. Looking at his own personal Bug, I was skeptical about how it was run. ( proper tins, tuning, maintenance, etc.)
I offered 150 based on a core price, he accepted.
When I got it home and tore it down for inspection and reseal, I discovered the bottom cylinder deflector tins on the top Shocked
i pulled the heads and found #3 piston burned and the rings, well, you get the idea.

I would never pay anymore than a core price on a used motor from someone I did not know or trust. just my .02


Sage advice.

I use that philosophy for anything (motors , transaxles, heaters, etc.) that can't be road tested on site. Every used motor I've ever bought was a "strong runner with performance extra's' !
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 2 cents.

At MINIMUM, I'd do two things - a compression check, and try push-pulling the engine pulley in-out of the case.

Compression for a fresh 1600+ should be at least 130PSI. If any one cylinder is getting down near 100PSI, then the engine "top end" is getting tired.

The correct end play on the crankshaft is just 3-5 thou, so if you can SEE any movement when you push/pull on the engine pulley, it's too much and the engine internals are tired.

Very simple and the only tool you need is a compression tester. If the seller isn't willing for you do do a compression test - walk away.

Also look at the engine in general, if it has tinware missing, small 36hp fan shroud, old hard spark plug tinware seals - little things can give you a big picture.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer your question, I would ask to the price of the engine. It is easy to start an engine on the ground without the car. At a minimum one could hear the "running engine". There may be some VW techs in your area that can provide a mobile service to start the engine up and/or give an opinion as to what is being presented to you. Receipts are always good but not proof.
Hope this helps, Bill.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be good if the engine was still in a car so you could drive it and see how it performs! But to some extent you can tell a bit about an engine by what's bolted to it.
Alternator?
Dual Port Heads and witch ones? Value $0 to $750.
Dog-House Fan Shroud? Value $30-$70.
Dual 2 barrel carbs, Weber? Dellorto? Manifolds? Linkage? Value $350 to $1100. Ranging from Dellorto 36's to Weber 48 IDA's.
Good Case: Value $150 to $750.
Full Flow oil system: Value $50 to $400.
Counterweighted Crankshaft: Value $175 or more.
H Beam Rods: Value $270.
Just to name a few things.

$0+$30+$350+$150+$50=$580 Low Value
$750+$70+$1100+$750+$400+$175+$270=$3515 High Value
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