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regal beagal Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2014 Posts: 19 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: buying a used motor |
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Anybody have tips on buying a used performance motor? Would it be messed up to ask ro take the head off to measure the bore, or should I just trust the guy? |
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Dr OnHolliday Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012 Posts: 1215 Location: was Escondido now San Berdoo
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Trust is earned. _________________ 1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: buying a used motor |
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regal beagal wrote: |
.......... a used performance motor? ...........should I just trust the guy? |
Aren't "performance motors" meant to be used and sometimes abused? (isn't that what performance is about?), unless the guy was one of my closest personal friends I'd want to probe that thing really deep before handing over any significant money. Heads off and a look in the oil screen at the very least as well as all the usual engine health checks beforehand IMO. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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regal beagal Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2014 Posts: 19 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Well by performance I mean it's built beyond a 1600. He never said performance himself but he did say it was a 1915 with a 120 cam. With low miles. I'm gonna hear it run tomorrow. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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regal beagal wrote: |
he did say it was a 1915 with a 120 cam. |
Perfect for staying in the slow lane on those leisurly Sunday ice cream runs
Tell yourself what you like but I wouldn't proceed a step further without the previously mentioned diagnosis or at the very least a long "spirited' test drive in his car with that engine installed. Look for smoke, listen for knocks, bring an IR temperature gun, etc..... _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'd also be a little curious if the engine is warm when you get there- as in just got driven to settle some noises, exhaust leaks, etc. I'd try to take it from cold/off to fully warmed to be sure. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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regal beagal Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2014 Posts: 19 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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A lot quicker than my 1600, but limited due to my transmission. |
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Bret2094 Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2012 Posts: 665 Location: Linden, Texas or College Station Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I always hate buying used turnkey engines not built from a reputable seller. Just makes me have to tear the whole thing down, but then again, im paranoid as hell. Don't be afraid to negotiate if something isn't quite up to snuff. If it's bad enough dont feel bad about walking away
Bret _________________ 1959 baja beetle ragtop( going back to Full body)
1959 beetle
1960 Beetle frame Custom buggy
1962 Karmann Ghia
1967 beetle( august 66, first car)
1967 beetle (parts car)
1977 Westfalia Camper
1972 Plymouth Duster
Just another 22 year old jackass who caught the bug, and lives by the motto " NO fatchicks allowed" , I've got too many cars as is (buses N/A) |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15280 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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An experienced engine builder can look at the cylinder bases at the case and head studs and determi9ne if it has 94mm pistons. Pop a valve cover. If it does not have dual valve springs with a W-120 cam then don't buy the engine. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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norcalmike Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 4784 Location: Marina, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I bought a used motor from a kid once. He said it ran great and he wanted $300. Looking at his own personal Bug, I was skeptical about how it was run. ( proper tins, tuning, maintenance, etc.)
I offered 150 based on a core price, he accepted.
When I got it home and tore it down for inspection and reseal, I discovered the bottom cylinder deflector tins on the top
i pulled the heads and found #3 piston burned and the rings, well, you get the idea.
I would never pay anymore than a core price on a used motor from someone I did not know or trust. just my .02 |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4020 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I have done some work for Dino Fry ( small block chevy guy) who wrote a well published book on building small blocks.
He said the new GM crate motors are great ( to take apart and build properly) Anything else is a used motor.
My Subaru 2.2 in my Syncro had 60K and lost a set of rod bearings. A used engine is a Used engine.
Let the buyer beware .
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I sell complete used Type 3 engines for $800 because they have so many $25-$200 parts on them. The OP never even told us what they were asking for the engine he is talking about buying? _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19670 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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norcalmike wrote: |
I bought a used motor from a kid once. He said it ran great and he wanted $300. Looking at his own personal Bug, I was skeptical about how it was run. ( proper tins, tuning, maintenance, etc.)
I offered 150 based on a core price, he accepted.
When I got it home and tore it down for inspection and reseal, I discovered the bottom cylinder deflector tins on the top
i pulled the heads and found #3 piston burned and the rings, well, you get the idea.
I would never pay anymore than a core price on a used motor from someone I did not know or trust. just my .02 |
Sage advice.
I use that philosophy for anything (motors , transaxles, heaters, etc.) that can't be road tested on site. Every used motor I've ever bought was a "strong runner with performance extra's' ! _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:05 am Post subject: |
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My 2 cents.
At MINIMUM, I'd do two things - a compression check, and try push-pulling the engine pulley in-out of the case.
Compression for a fresh 1600+ should be at least 130PSI. If any one cylinder is getting down near 100PSI, then the engine "top end" is getting tired.
The correct end play on the crankshaft is just 3-5 thou, so if you can SEE any movement when you push/pull on the engine pulley, it's too much and the engine internals are tired.
Very simple and the only tool you need is a compression tester. If the seller isn't willing for you do do a compression test - walk away.
Also look at the engine in general, if it has tinware missing, small 36hp fan shroud, old hard spark plug tinware seals - little things can give you a big picture. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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To answer your question, I would ask to the price of the engine. It is easy to start an engine on the ground without the car. At a minimum one could hear the "running engine". There may be some VW techs in your area that can provide a mobile service to start the engine up and/or give an opinion as to what is being presented to you. Receipts are always good but not proof.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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It would be good if the engine was still in a car so you could drive it and see how it performs! But to some extent you can tell a bit about an engine by what's bolted to it.
Alternator?
Dual Port Heads and witch ones? Value $0 to $750.
Dog-House Fan Shroud? Value $30-$70.
Dual 2 barrel carbs, Weber? Dellorto? Manifolds? Linkage? Value $350 to $1100. Ranging from Dellorto 36's to Weber 48 IDA's.
Good Case: Value $150 to $750.
Full Flow oil system: Value $50 to $400.
Counterweighted Crankshaft: Value $175 or more.
H Beam Rods: Value $270.
Just to name a few things.
$0+$30+$350+$150+$50=$580 Low Value
$750+$70+$1100+$750+$400+$175+$270=$3515 High Value _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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