1791 85.5x78 "Stock Stroker" Build

[mark tucker]

those are vw rockers?? beter check pushrod to tube clearance to be sure the pushrods dont get eaten up by the tubes when you centered the balls on the stems. also I always rework the rockers, including serfacing the end where the adjuster screws up to so it sits flat and go's farter up.remember those are thick the vw screws were not thick and didnt protrude out as far. this will help keep the rocker in the right possition. I also set mine at 1/4-1/2 turn out of the rocker. but I suppose 1 turn will be fine. with everything you do always look at the entire picture as far as what it is doing, what it wil do, what is also affected by what it was doing and what will be affected by the new way it is working..and on down the line, cause and affect.
if you pull a roofing nail from a flat tire and plug it then back over the nail you have just cause another hole from the affect of removing the nail but not throwing it in the garden so the plants could get the iron.There are always more steps than foot prints.

[marbleknight]

[marbleknight]

Need some help from the community. Tonight I started to measure for pushrod lengths so I can cut my pushrods and get the top end finished. I determined the pushrod length at #1 intake using my adjustable pushrod with the courier adjuster on the rocker backed out 1/2 of a revolution as stated in the previous post. After getting that length determined I went around to all the other rockers and adjusted their courier screws likewise and put the adjustable pushrod in to make sure that length would be ok. It was fine for all but two rockers; #3 intake and exhaust. The length was way too long for them, like .200" too long!

At first I suspected a problem with the rockers, so I switched the rockers out between #1 and #3, yet the problem stayed on the #3 side. It's not the rockers.

Then I measured the height of the rocker block pad on the head to see if it was the same at all four positions (two on each head). They were within a few thousandths. It's not the pads.

I re-checked valve stem heights across all valves. They were all the same within thousandths. It's not the height of the valve stems.

The only thing left I can think of is the lifters. Maybe those two on #3 have shallower cups or something? I can't measure them right now because they're down in the case and I'll have to tear it all down to get to them.

I guess the cam could be messed up too, but that would surprise me.

So the question is, do you usually encounter big differences in required pushrod lengths like this? Is it normal? What am I missing? I can always just cut those two rods shorter, and that's what I plan to do now unless I hear back that you guys think something is really messed up. Thanks.
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1974 Bug - 1791 (85.5 x 78mm) "Stock Stroker"
1974 Bug - 2021 (92TW x 76mm)

[modok]

[marbleknight]

After measuring everything I could think of, I could not find the reason for the difference in pushrod length stated in the last post. I tore it all down again for the final cleaning and assembly and measured the lifter cups at those two locations which were different, and they were the same as all the other lifters.

I used a pushrod tip to measure from the face of the lifter down into the cup:

So I don't know what else to check or measure in the pushrod-too-long department, so I'm moving on. I'll cut the pushrods for those two locations shorter. The cam checks out with its time and all, so I don't see a problem.

Upon tear-down I did a close inspection inside the case and found a collision I had missed before. A rod was rubbing against one of the cam towers and needed clearance:

Everything was cleaned, checked for suspicious markings and then put back together. The cam break-in lube was applied generously to the lifters and cam:

I applied the aviation Permatex to the case half with a syringe. I like this method because it allows me to lay a thin bead and it's a lot less messy.

I retained the lifters in the right case half and put the case together after doing final checks to make sure I had the cam plug in as well as the O-rings for the main bearing studs.

There was a minimal amount of sealant that squeezed out around the case.

Installed the flywheel and re-checked endplay. It is 0.004".

I applied Permatex to all the main studs, washers and nuts. If it's gonna leak, it won't be from there.

Next I got the new rings on all the pistons. I had previously measured all the gaps and found all the top ones were around 0.014" and the second rings were the same or smaller. I opened all the second ring gaps up so they were 0.002" bigger than the top ring gaps. I vigorously cleaned all the cylinders again and applied a very light coat of oil in the cylinders with my bare hands, just enough to make them shiny. I put some high-temp copper Permatex at the base of the cylinders and installed the pistons on the rods, put the wristpin retainers in and slid the pistons down to the block.

I had previously installed all the head studs with Permatex on the threads, and I didn't bottom them out in the case.

I got the heads on the cylinders and torqued them down, 14ft-lb to start and then 17, 20, and 23 alternating from one head to the other. Installed pushrod tubes, pushrods, and rockers to check for any rubbing of the pushrod against the tubes. It got close, but no contact.

The progress so far:

Installed the oil cooler with new seals and torqued nuts to 5 ft-lb. For the bottom two nuts where a torque wrench can't be used I used a force gauge to apply a known force to a wrench of known length (6"). Not sure if this precision is really required, but I figure the tiny torque spec for these nuts is that way for a reason and I didn't want to guess.

Cut and fit intake manifold gaskets.

Got ready to install the thermostat and flaps and noticed that hole in the head where the thermostat pushrod goes was all sealed up with flash:

Drilled it all out and got the stuff installed.

Tested the thermostat to see at what temp (approximately) it opens. This isn't the most accurate method in the world but the thermostat isn't exactly a precision device in my opinion. I used a heat gun and thermometer to see when it started to pop open. Doing it like this you have to kind of sneak up on the temperature so the thermometer has time to react.

The thermostat opened at 225°.

Made sure the flaps went from fully open to fully closed.

Continued installing accessories and tin.

It's almost ready for break-in, just another day or two of work and checking minor things and it will be fired up. I have read about every post I can find on break-in oils and additives, and I have decided to try a new combo since Brad Penn oil is hideously expensive and hard to find. I will use a good 30-wt dino oil with Lucas break-in additive for ZDDP content and a Purolator PL30001 filter.
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1974 Bug - 1791 (85.5 x 78mm) "Stock Stroker"
1974 Bug - 2021 (92TW x 76mm)

[mark tucker]

always use good lube on the bearings,you can use the same red/pink stuff you have on the lifters and it also go's in the lifter bores. as far as the #3 issue the pushrod probably wasent in the lifter good, some tend to hang up then go twang!! or smack!! when turning the engine crank when it seats. been there done that, not real good for the cam/lifter either. getter done!!!

[Mad Manx]

Everything looks really good, great job but I worry about the sealant filling in the oil return in the center of the case in front of the number 1 bearing and the oil seal, make sure you did not fill that oil drain with sealant. The cam drain looks good.

[GDOG57]

^That's a very good point. If it gets filled, you will have oil at highway speeds coming out your pulley. Unless you cut for sand seal.
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'57 oval window deluxe,Agave green(L240) 2276cc w/51.5 IDA's
'57 type 2 panel ( L31 dove blue) project daily driver,Singleport 1955cc
'69 Squareback (L30A Royal Red)

[jason]

When I degree a cam I do one for and aft, one side. I'm already doing it so I take a few more minutes just to be sure everything is correct. I don't think side to side would show anything different as they use the same lobes.

[philthy]

Hold up! Are those rod bolts torque to spec, or stretch to spec?
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74 Baja 1600 Dual ICT

[bugguy1967]

That Aviation takes a looong time to get hard, so if he's going to fire it up soon, it'll just get washed away by the oil pressure. No big deal. If it were silicone, which should never be used anyways, it'd be a problem.

I thought the 8mm oil cooler nuts got torqued to 14 ft. lbs, like the other M8 nuts. I just use a crows foot, and compensate for the extra leverage.
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"A petrol engine can start readily, run smoothly and give every appearance of being in good order, without necessarily being in good tune." - Colin Campbell, "The Sportscar Engine"

[Mad Manx]

[fastfil]

Yep, as bugguy says, M8s on the oil cooler are 14ft/lb. It's the little ones that bolt the cooler to it's mount that are 5ft/lb.
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"...swingaxle...transaxle...same diff."

[marbleknight]

[marbleknight]

[MURZI]

Digging the syringe method. Clean...surgical precision. where is the "copied" button. Great job man!!
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62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

[mark tucker]

just remember that sealer was applied on the innse side and little squezed out the out side.how much inside? did it also fill the flywheel seal relief channell?hope not. haylomar is my favorite as it cleans up easy,go's on easy, dosent drip or run.
those are some thick head lifters.last set I had like that got some work in the lathe. getter done lets hear it run....

[marbleknight]

[marbleknight]

Break-in is tomorrow night. I'm either going to use the Lucas Break-in oil additive or the little-known Hy-per lube available at most FLAPS. Do a search on here and you'll see some commentary. It was supposedly tested on ACVW lifters and the resulting wear was compared to the wear received when using 500-1100ppm ZDDP oils:

That stuff is a zinc replacement, not additive. It contains no zinc or phosphorus so this will be a little out of the normal realm of break-in lubricants. But how often do you find a product that says testing was done specifically on ACVW stuff? Geez, that alone is worth a try.
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1974 Bug - 1791 (85.5 x 78mm) "Stock Stroker"
1974 Bug - 2021 (92TW x 76mm)

[mark tucker]

I take test results with a grain of salt. there are somany variables.how many were tested?were they all the exzact same engine? same cam cores?same grind?same lifter batch? all run in the same? all the same cam lube and all applied the same? same cooling systems? same lash? just tomany things to consider for me to swallow in most cases. but that dosent mean it dosent work.but better than brand x or c or Q???.there are lots of snake oils out there.but as of yet I havent heard any squeeking snakes.......(I use camshield for breakin only 35 min max)