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shortride
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 1323
Location: Oklahoma
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34021
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Some possible causes:
- worn rear torsion arm bushings.
- worn shock bushings.
- gas shocks (too firm for the light Beetle).
- too-high tire pressure
Also, other worn suspension parts will make you feel bumps sharply, even though the basic ride is okay. Tie rods, ball joints, play in the steering gear can all make it seem harsher than it really is.
Also, a lot of noise make sit seem harsher. Air leaks, squeaks, rattles all make your brain think it's shaking itself apart. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| shortride wrote: |
| This may be a waste of time but I'll ask anyhow. I love driving my '66 Sedan but that sucker sure does ride rough. We have fairly bumpy streets and I was wondering if there's anything short of transplanting the body onto a later model Beetle pan that will improve the ride. |
What tire inflations? Should be 18PSI front 28 PSI rear. Also, what kind of shocks? Any gas charged shocks ride like shit. You need original VW oil shocks for the best ride like Wolfsburg West sells.
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Contact me at [email protected]
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| shortride wrote: |
| This may be a waste of time but I'll ask anyhow. I love driving my '66 Sedan but that sucker sure does ride rough. We have fairly bumpy streets and I was wondering if there's anything short of transplanting the body onto a later model Beetle pan that will improve the ride. |
What tire inflations? Should be 18PSI front 28 PSI rear. Also, what kind of shocks? Any gas charged shocks ride like shit. You need original VW oil shocks for the best ride like Wolfsburg West sells.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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shortride
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 1323
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| shortride wrote: |
| This may be a waste of time but I'll ask anyhow. I love driving my '66 Sedan but that sucker sure does ride rough. We have fairly bumpy streets and I was wondering if there's anything short of transplanting the body onto a later model Beetle pan that will improve the ride. |
What tire inflations? Should be 18PSI front 28 PSI rear. Also, what kind of shocks? Any gas charged shocks ride like shit. You need original VW oil shocks for the best ride like Wolfsburg West sells. |
As far as I know the shocks are stock and the tire pressure in my new Coker tires is exactly as you stated. I'm no expert at this but it feels like the torsion bars are worn out. I guess that's possible isn't it?
_________________
Pearl White 1966 Sedan
Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran |
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doc1976
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 356
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| What symptoms are you experiencing? And as far as the ride quality, what is your basis of comparison? Torsion bars do wear, but a lot of guys are running 60 year old bars with no complaints. Check All bushings, and consider cleaning out the old grease in the front tubes and re-greasing. |
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shortride
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 1323
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| doc1976 wrote: |
| What symptoms are you experiencing? And as far as the ride quality, what is your basis of comparison? Torsion bars do wear, but a lot of guys are running 60 year old bars with no complaints. Check All bushings, and consider cleaning out the old grease in the front tubes and re-greasing. |
The suspension feels stiff. I feel every little bump in the road. I know this is and old car and shouldn't expect it to ride like a new one. It may just be wishful thinking but I would like to improve the ride somewhat. There's not a rattle in the car and I'm thankful for that. The shocks need to remove to see what condition they are in first I would imagine. On the other hand there may not be much can be done to my car to improve the ride.
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Pearl White 1966 Sedan
Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran |
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planenut
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2012
Posts: 334
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:40 pm Post subject: '66 ride |
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| I agree with the gas shocks and tire pressure. I'm wondering how worn torsion springs will make it ride stiff instead of soft and mushy. |
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Check and see what shocks you have on it. I drove a buddy's 68 and he wanted to drive my stock 67. He was SHOCKED at how nice my 67 rode compared to his. I couldn't stand how his 68 rode. It was so stiff and had no suspension travel. When I got out of his 68, I couldn't even push his front end down. He had gas charged front shocks on it and was running 32psi front and 36 rear.
He went and bought stock, oil filled shocks and lowered his tire pressures down and said he had a new car..
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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RareAir
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 14577
Location: 18 miles North of the border
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is the car lowered or stock height?
Stand on the front bumper and see if your suspension has any play. Only things that would effect the ride quality would be the ball joints, torsion leaves & shocks.
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1947 Typ 11a
1954 Typ 117
1956 Typ 151
1959 Typ 117
1959 Typ 265
1961 356B
1966 Typ 151
1966 Typ 241 |
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fabricator john
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2009
Posts: 510
Location: manassas va. now Venice Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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try a full tank ........
fabricator john |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| shortride wrote: |
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| shortride wrote: |
| This may be a waste of time but I'll ask anyhow. I love driving my '66 Sedan but that sucker sure does ride rough. We have fairly bumpy streets and I was wondering if there's anything short of transplanting the body onto a later model Beetle pan that will improve the ride. |
What tire inflations? Should be 18PSI front 28 PSI rear. Also, what kind of shocks? Any gas charged shocks ride like shit. You need original VW oil shocks for the best ride like Wolfsburg West sells. |
As far as I know the shocks are stock and the tire pressure in my new Coker tires is exactly as you stated. I'm no expert at this but it feels like the torsion bars are worn out. I guess that's possible isn't it? |
In the amount of decades past,it is entirely possible that the stock oil shocks have either leaked out all of the oil, or congealed, or some other malady could have transpired.
You don't necessarily have to purchase the, from WW, you just need to know the brand "Boge" and that they are oil shocks.
Good luck, and let us know what you discover!
Kyle
_________________
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69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| shortride wrote: |
As far as I know the shocks are stock and the tire pressure in my new Coker tires is exactly as you stated. I'm no expert at this but it feels like the torsion bars are worn out. I guess that's possible isn't it? |
The torsion bars don't actually "wear out" but they do sag with age, so the car feels lower, or lop sided and it can "wollow" in corners. Very easy to fix if that is the problem.
First get behind the car and look at the tyres from the rear - they should be a little pigeon toed - positive camber, and the car should look level left to right. If the tyres look vertical or even negative camber, then the torsion bars have sagged some. The axle tubes should have about a 2 degree down angle from the gearbox to the wheels.
Also look at the car on level ground - put a spirit level on the door sill - it should be level - if the car slopes to the rear at all, then that confirms the torsion bars have sagged.
There is a complete article on our web site for resetting to torsion bars. You probably wont need any new parts (although if the big rubber end-bushings are worn you'll get a harsh rattly ride), and it takes about 3 hours per side the first time you do it.
www.vw-resource.com/rearaxle.html
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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shortride
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 1323
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Anything To Make My '66 Sedan Ride Better? |
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| Aussiebug wrote: |
| shortride wrote: |
As far as I know the shocks are stock and the tire pressure in my new Coker tires is exactly as you stated. I'm no expert at this but it feels like the torsion bars are worn out. I guess that's possible isn't it? |
The torsion bars don't actually "wear out" but they do sag with age, so the car feels lower, or lop sided and it can "wollow" in corners. Very easy to fix if that is the problem.
First get behind the car and look at the tyres from the rear - they should be a little pigeon toed - positive camber, and the car should look level left to right. If the tyres look vertical or even negative camber, then the torsion bars have sagged some. The axle tubes should have about a 2 degree down angle from the gearbox to the wheels.
Also look at the car on level ground - put a spirit level on the door sill - it should be level - if the car slopes to the rear at all, then that confirms the torsion bars have sagged.
There is a complete article on our web site for resetting to torsion bars. You probably wont need any new parts (although if the big rubber end-bushings are worn you'll get a harsh rattly ride), and it takes about 3 hours per side the first time you do it.
www.vw-resource.com/rearaxle.html |
I had this subject come up shortly after I got my car back in February and have had different comments made about it.
The rear wheels and tires are perfectly straight up and down. According to the level the rear of the car is lower than the front by about one inch.
I realize it's been a long time but I had a brand new '66 Sedan in Germany and I don't remember it sitting as low as this car. I also realize this is an old car and I should expect it to sit or ride like a new one but I was hoping there was something I could do to help the ride and get it closer to factory spec's.
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Pearl White 1966 Sedan
Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran |
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Shortride,
Just reset the rear torsion bars and it's back to "as new" for the rear suspension.
VW knew they would eventually sag with age so designed them to be reset easily. There are 44 spline on one end and 40 on the other, so a one-up-one-down rotation on each end changes the spring plate angle by 0.9 degrees or so, so it's possible to get quite close to "new" with the settings.
I've done it twice in the 43 years I've had my 1970 bug - it still has it's original torsion bars and even the rubber bushes at the outer ends are the originals.
Just make sure you mark the spring plates and brake hubs with a chisel mark so you can line them up again after doing the job - the spring plates have elongated holes for setting the toe out (yes, toe out 2mm) for the rear suspension.
_________________
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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try this first before you do anything else, push down on the bumpers with the shocks hooked up, observe resistance. then undo one end of the shocks and repeat test. If it is the shocks you will tell by the resistance felt.
I have over 300K on my 60 and have yet to adjust the rear torsion bars and it sets and rides like new. I run Boge oil filled shocks on the front and KYB GR2's on the rear.
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Yrs I refurbed bugs the shocks on most never changed, worn/flat. Not orig but radials made a big diff after air press set . I finally settled on Gabriel gas, not real firm like most and made sure it was sitting at correct level. These dropped ones will never ride anything but crap, vw's best won'tbe like todays small ones, my 2cts. |
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shortride
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2010
Posts: 1323
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiebug wrote: |
Shortride,
Just reset the rear torsion bars and it's back to "as new" for the rear suspension.
VW knew they would eventually sag with age so designed them to be reset easily. There are 44 spline on one end and 40 on the other, so a one-up-one-down rotation on each end changes the spring plate angle by 0.9 degrees or so, so it's possible to get quite close to "new" with the settings.
I've done it twice in the 43 years I've had my 1970 bug - it still has it's original torsion bars and even the rubber bushes at the outer ends are the originals.
Just make sure you mark the spring plates and brake hubs with a chisel mark so you can line them up again after doing the job - the spring plates have elongated holes for setting the toe out (yes, toe out 2mm) for the rear suspension. |
I was told by someone that the back-end is actually suppose to be lower. I do remember that my new '66 had positive camber on the rear wheels.
I'm going to leave that to someone that know more and has experience re-indexing the torsion bars.
Thanks for the input guys.
_________________
Pearl White 1966 Sedan
Retired US Army - 21 years 11B40, 173rd Airborne Brig. - Vietnam Combat Veteran |
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Aussiebug
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| shortride wrote: |
I was told by someone that the back-end is actually suppose to be lower. I do remember that my new '66 had positive camber on the rear wheels.
I'm going to leave that to someone that know more and has experience re-indexing the torsion bars.
Thanks for the input guys. |
"Someone" does not know much about bugs.
ALL, repeat ALL swing axle bugs come with a slight positive camber - the axles should angle down from the gearbox to the wheels by about 2 degrees.
That ensures that a small pool of gear oil remains behind the wheel bearings - it's the only lube they get. running negative camber ensures you will be running dry wheel bearings. Positive camber also ensures than the suspension has the maximum amount of vertical travel without HUGE changes in camber angle (positive to negative rather than negative to wildly negative). Setting the car to negative camber can also destroy the drive-spades on the inner ends of the axles.
Resetting the rear torsion bars so you have the correct slight positive camber is easy to do (read the article on our web site), and returns the suspension to the factory settings. Just don't swap the torsion bars when resetting (do one side at a time) as they all have a pre-set ...left and right hand versions.
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Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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Digger89L
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2013
Posts: 1130
Location: Western Canada (SK)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 1966 owner's manual says tire pressures should be 16 psi front and 24 psi rear, if carrying 1 to 2 passengers, and 17 / 26 if carrying 3 to 5. |
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