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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: -AN Fittings Brands and Tricks? |
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About to bust my cherry with -AN fittings...
Always used rubber to good effect, but this next build is going to the next level.
Russel, Earles, Summit...
Does the brand matter?
Is one better than the rest?
They are standardized, right? You can mix brands?
Looks like those aluminum wrenches are worth getting, at $10 or so,
But what about the Koul Tools push-together tool at about $75?
Would that be worth getting for to do only one car?
You might cuss a bit, but they go together without, right?
Never thought I'd succumb to the bling...
What advice would you give an -AN newbie? _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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JasonBaker Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2010 Posts: 1642 Location: Cleveland, TN
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Bump for more info.
I have no answers, but it would be nice if people with EXPERIENCE would comment with FACTS and this thread could be made into a stickie! |
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risk Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Stumpbroke, Arkansas
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Aeroquip all the way.
I would stay away from the bargain brands like summit or jegs. The ones I have used tend to leak eventually. Mixing brands of ends and hose is asking for trouble. It will work, but again, eventually it will leak. Also if you are going with the blue/red fittings or any other color, they won't be an exact match if you mix brands.
I did my fuel lines, oil pressure lines, turbo supply/drain, and case pcv vent lines.. It was not cheap. If I had it to do over, I would have done all black fittings and black hose, push locks.
Here is how I assemble my hoses..
http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35237&highlight=fittings |
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cjsuner Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2013 Posts: 476 Location: Bay area CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Tools: I didn't use any special ones. I used my sheet metal cutter to get through the braided lines, be sure to use duct tape around the lines before cutting though, otherwise you won't get a clean cut with the braids.
And than i just used an adjustable wrench for tightening everything together, no need for special ones.
I am useing the summit brand fittings, them seem to work fine, no leaks or anything, but then again, i just got the new engine in, so not many miles on it.
I am useing -AN 8 size lines |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3444 Location: Garage
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have used lots of different ones. They are different brand to brand so use the same brand at the hose up until the AN part. Hope that makes sense. I use a sharp chisel and an aluminum block to cut the hoses, cutting wheels make a mess. I only use the teflon hose though. Much easier to work with. Cut, slide end over SS, put ferrule on, insert hose end and tighten. Just be careful to not over tighten. Aluminum wrench helps to not scratch the anodizing but still does if not careful. You can use a regular wrench if you go easy. |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1330 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Bonaco inc. or phenix industries both are made in USA . most others are Chinese , YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU GET . _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608
Last edited by raul arrese on Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3470 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: -AN Fittings Brands and Tricks? |
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Clatter wrote: |
What advice would you give an -AN newbie? |
Patience.
The Kool Tools hose assembler is never needed, but if you don't have patience, it might be the only thing that gets your hoses finished. Hose can be cut with a hacksaw, cutoff wheel, hose cutter or chisel...even if the wire sheath frays, it can be assembled by hand, regardless of brand or size.
I haven't found one brand I prefer over another...Red Horse makes fittings for a lot of house brands and custom brands. Aeroquip, Russell, Earls, Fragola, Red Horse/house brands...they all work if assembled correctly. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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tattooed_pariah Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006 Posts: 2047 Location: El Cajon, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I plumbed my car from gas tank to carbs last summer. no special tools..
bought my hoses and ends from http://gandjaircraft.net/ (I lived about 35 minutes away from them at the time so I went to their shop..) and it was pretty simple..
I wrapped the hose with electrical tape and used a cut-off wheel in a dremel to cut through, wrapped the fitting in a shop rag and snugged it down in a vise then carefully inserted the hose..
One or two gave me some trouble, but you get a feel for it and the rest are easy.
my chain went as follows: AN fitting on bottom of tank, hose to 65 micron filter, hose to electric pump, direct connection to regulator, hose through the heater channel (no heat in my car) to a bulkhead fitting on the firewall, hose to t-fitting, hoses to carbs.
easy-peasy.. _________________ -pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15309 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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On my 2276 in the Ghia I used all Jeg's black fittings and black nylon braided hose. No leaks and no special tools needed.
You need to use plenty of lubricant (WD-40) to assemble the ends on the hose, and you must clean out the hose after assembly to remove any wire slivers and debris.
AN-6 for fuel lines and AN-8 for oil lines. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Dag, just spent a whole day digging through Jegs and Summit.
Starting with Aeroquip, just cause..
The AQP hose means rubber with braided stainless shell,
But PTFE means Teflon, with the same, AFAICT...
The Teflon is only like four more bucks for a 15' length,
Is rated at 3000PSI vs. 1000PSI, and 450F vs. 300F.
So, seems like a no-brainer to use the Teflon vs. rubber.
Teflon lasts longer, too, right?
The fittings seem to cost the same for each.
Is there something I'm missing as to why anyone wouldn't want to use Teflon?
Thanks for all of the input, guys. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1330 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
Dag, just spent a whole day digging through Jegs and Summit.
Starting with Aeroquip, just cause..
The AQP hose means rubber with braided stainless shell,
But PTFE means Teflon, with the same, AFAICT...
The Teflon is only like four more bucks for a 15' length,
Is rated at 3000PSI vs. 1000PSI, and 450F vs. 300F.
So, seems like a no-brainer to use the Teflon vs. rubber.
Teflon lasts longer, too, right?
The fittings seem to cost the same for each.
Is there something I'm missing as to why anyone wouldn't want to use Teflon?
Thanks for all of the input, guys. |
Teflon is not affected by any fuel and has no shelf life. my whole car is stainless hardline and Teflon hose. I use it on my oil , fuel and my air ride . _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608 |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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risk wrote: |
Aeroquip all the way.
If I had it to do over, I would have done all black fittings and black hose, push locks.
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By 'push-lock', you mean what Aeroquip calls 'socketless'?
I have used the similar 'blue' push-lock hose for full-flow fittings before.
it was a budget deal at the time, but it worked well, mostly.
The biggest gripe I had with it was that there was no provision for a swivel, so when it came dis-assembly time, it pretty much had to be cut away from the fittings, and the hose trashed.
It is rated 300PSI, which, when using a pressure-relief cover, should be OK, however, if doing oil lines with just a straight full-flow cover, you could theoretically blow the oil lines on a cold-start and some wacking of the throttle... _________________ Bus Motor Build
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5969 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I mix and match brands all of the time, and the only ones that don't work well are the cheap chinese ones from Ebay. Jegs, Summit, Russel, Aeroquip, all have clean machining, and work well together for me. I use a grinder to cut the hose. Wrap where you're going to cut with some electrical tape, it keeps the end from fraying. After the cut, rinse with some thinner, and blow out with air, alternating a few times. To finish I usually push a small piece or rag through with a tig rod. For assembly, I leave a few wraps of the tape on until I get the hose started into the collar, then I carefully peel it out. Yes I have stabbed the hell out of my hands this way.. |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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raul arrese wrote: |
Teflon is not affected by any fuel and has no shelf life. my whole car is stainless hardline and Teflon hose. I use it on my oil , fuel and my air ride . |
How hard was it to flare the stainless hard line?
I have heard that the stainless line is far harder to flare than regular steel hard line.
Did you buy one of those $$$ name-brand flaring tools, or just use a typical China/Craftsman quality flaring kit? _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
On my 2276 in the Ghia I used all Jeg's black fittings and black nylon braided hose. No leaks and no special tools needed.
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Dave,
You used this stuff?
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/110912/10002/-1?parentProductId=
The Jegs Pro-Flo 350?
Looks like a rubber hose with nylon sheath...
I like the look of the black hose better than shiny for sure.
But rubber vs. Teflon...?
I tend to keep these cars for the rest of my life.... FWIW. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7549 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Aeroquip StartLite hose looks pretty sweet...
http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeroquip/023/FBU0600/10002/-1?parentProductId=
It's Kevlar braided covering is lighter than the stainless, and easier to work with.
Doesn't seem to cost _that_ much more, either.
And,
Well,
I'll admit it.
The black braided hose cover with the red tracer woven in would look bitchen on my black car with the red details....
It's all AQP stuff - rubber - not Teflon.
Doh! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1330 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
raul arrese wrote: |
Teflon is not affected by any fuel and has no shelf life. my whole car is stainless hardline and Teflon hose. I use it on my oil , fuel and my air ride . |
How hard was it to flare the stainless hard line?
I have heard that the stainless line is far harder to flare than regular steel hard line.
Did you buy one of those $$$ name-brand flaring tools, or just use a typical China/Craftsman quality flaring kit? |
I have never had a problem flaring any line but on this application I tig-weld stainless AN males to both ends . _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
"
Like my facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raul-Arrese-custom-fabrication-and-performance/1832968110262608 |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
risk wrote: |
Aeroquip all the way.
If I had it to do over, I would have done all black fittings and black hose, push locks.
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By 'push-lock', you mean what Aeroquip calls 'socketless'?
I have used the similar 'blue' push-lock hose for full-flow fittings before.
it was a budget deal at the time, but it worked well, mostly.
The biggest gripe I had with it was that there was no provision for a swivel, so when it came dis-assembly time, it pretty much had to be cut away from the fittings, and the hose trashed.
It is rated 300PSI, which, when using a pressure-relief cover, should be OK, however, if doing oil lines with just a straight full-flow cover, you could theoretically blow the oil lines on a cold-start and some wacking of the throttle... |
I had no trouble finding push-loc swivel nipples...
A swivel to AN on each end makes for easy hose removal.
_________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15309 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes that is what I used. Much more flexable then SS braided hose. The black looks more modern then the 70's style SS hose with the Red/Blue fittings. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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Lo Cash John Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004 Posts: 2246 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Special tools:
Bench vise that's BOLTED down, not just sitting on the bench
Aluminum "angle iron" pieces to use as vice jaw pads (protects anodizing)
Electrical tape
Sharpie
Measuring tape
Cutting tool (I use cut off wheels, either electric or air)
Band aids, lots of band aids.
I've used Earl's, Fragola, AeroQuip and Summit and pleased with all. If I was pushing the hose to its design limits I would stick with premium brands but for 99% of automotive applications the Summit stuff is fine. _________________ www.LoCashRacing.org
More brains than bucks...Believe it or not!!
If you actually drive your VW, you need www.AirMapp.com
My boss told me I need to work on my mutli-tasking. So now when I use the bathroom at work I surf The Samba on my iPhone. |
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