Retrofitting Bus Sunroof, help required

[neilswheels]

So, i'm slowly retrofitting a steel sunroof in my stripped Westy, just about got it licked, and ready for a trial fit, but on attempting to fit the aluminum sunroof guide channels, I found that I don't have a hole or locator for the pin in the back end of the aluminum channel. So, can anyone take a picture of where this hole should be so I can drill one.

1st pic is the pin in the end of the channel

Second pic is looking inside the sunroof tray towards the back of the bus. You can see the drain hole on the right, I'm assuming there should be another round hole to the left of this for the pin to lock in

3rd pic is taken at the back of the bus through the tailgate and is the outside corner of the sunroof tray. Again, i think I should have a hole here some where for the pin to locate in.

Can anyone help???

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I think your best bet would be lay the channel in place where you want it to live, and put a bunch of paint on the pin (like house paint, or something that dries slow) push it against the back and you'll have the spot where you need to drill.


what are your plans for the drains?
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[busdaddy]

I thought there was a welded in tab with a hole back there that's left out for campers, maybe one of SGK's sunroof threads will show it?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200
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[aeromech]

If Busdaddy is right I'd say that you'll have a very tough time fitting in a sunroof. They are bad enough to keep working well on an original sunroof bus. That plus very expensive and hard to find parts.
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[ratherb-buggin]

[jakokombi]

There is indeed a welded in tab, sorry no pix.
I will check the KOMBI tonight and look for indications of spotwelds.
I can measure for placement, maybe you can cut a slot from below,
slip in a tab and weld it?
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[neilswheels]

This is happening, I have all the parts, all the drain tubes are in, made and mounted stainless steel ramps, this is the last step.

Thanks Jakokombi, I had a horrible feeling it may be a weld in tab, but I like your ides, Any pics or measurements would be appreciated.

I also thought I could make a spacer out of round bar, bent 90 degrees on each end to slide into the rails like a big staple, linking the two ends of the rail, so that would keep the distance between them correct, and have a tab in the middle of the spacer that would be bolted into from the underside of the roof.

[jakokombi]

Naturally I forgot to measure last night when I got home from work.
I'll make sure to do it before I pour a drink tonight.

Your idea of a spreader bar sounds viable. Don't forget to account for the curve of the ceiling panel.
If memory serves (not often) that hole in the tab is about 1- 1/2" up from the base.
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[jakokombi]

Well I don't see any obvious location marks, I got a shot of where it may be but, the more that I think of it the less likely it seems.

I had my panel out this summer and one of the things I did was to replace one of the plastic locator pins that you show in your photo. I was missing one for some years and the only problem was an ocasional rattle. The roof functioned fine, so, once again I think your spreader bar will work.

I was thinking maybe on that dimple in the rectangular recess, but then probably not.
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[SGKent]

I looked and have no photos of the cavity the sunroof slides into. I vaguely recall that there are brackets at the back to aim for. I think it will be a real problem to weld in there because the area is too narrow to climb into. I also think that the back of the rails plays a part in how far back the cables can go.

If you want the brackets your best bet is to find a cut up sunroof donor, peel back the top and cut out the brackets after taking measurements.

I will give you one BIG caveat. Back in 2009 when we were restoring our 1977 sunroof bus I needed an inside sunroof panel. We picked one up at Interstate that was in the heap of those things. Clearly it was for a bay. However it did not fit our 1977. We never did figure what it was from, however we did confirm that 1970 - 1979 sunroofs are the same. My understanding is that splits used a canvas sunroof, so I suspect the panel was off a 1968. You may find that the attachment on a 1968 bay is also different than later bays. It may be worth your while to find someone with a 1968 sunroof and inspect it before you go further as there may be more surprises to come.
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[neilswheels]

Thanks for the pic Jakokombi, i think that little indent is where the bracket is. I think I'm going to go with the spreader, and yeh, the curve of the roof. I'm thinking i'll make it to fit the front of the runners, as the holes in the runner are in the same place, though bigger, and bend the bar to suit the curve at the front of the roof, hoping it's the same at the back. Might need some tweaking, but should be close.
SGKent, thanks for the input, If I was to go the OE bracket route, I would indeed find a door, cut the bracket out with a bit of tray attached, then cut out a piece of the tray and weld in the donor bit from underneath, inside the bus, tho that upside down welding is no fun, and looking again at the pics, that's a fair chunk of bus roof to cut out! But I can't find a donor, and I've cut way too many holes in my bus getting the drain tubes in, and I want to get the bus to the paint shop, so after dwelling on it all for a few days, I think the Spreader bar is my way forward.
I think you're right about the cables, so i'll use two bolts at the end of each runner that are the same length as the plastic pins on the original locater. I'll tap the holes in the end of the rail to a suitable size, at a glance I think m6 is probably close, I think this will do the trick, fingers crossed. Oh, my bus is a 71

[snowymonkey]

What about starting with the paint marking idea listed above. Then drill out the hole from the outside... but make it large enough to accommodate a tube with an inner diameter big enough to hold the guide. Next slide the tube in from the rear and trim down to size. Then weld it in place.

Like this.... excuse the crude drawing

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[neilswheels]

Thats a good idea snowymonkey, I discounted it before because the runner doesnt reach the back of the tray, but this would get over that. Only thing would be getting the mark on the inside of the tray to the outside to drill it, food for thought tho.

[SGKent]

the only other option would be to fabricate brackets based on what originals look like. It might be possible to slide them into place with a long stiff wire like a electrical fish, with a bolt glued through them to drop into a hole then bolt or weld. However I think you are far better off getting the width of the sunroof rails correct before you screw them down, then using that spreader bar. That would hold the width at the back. Bolts threaded in should work. Just make sure the sunroof inner and outer clear the spreader in the full back position.

How did you get the front drain lines installed inside the B post?
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[Tcash]

What about this?

[notchboy]

[busdaddy]

That's by far the best suggestion, but you'd need the dimensions of the OG bracket including the exact position of the locating hole that goes over that dimple before spot welding at the factory as well as the hole for the pin. You could glue it in with autobody panel adhesive or even a good urethane and some sheet metal screws from below.
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[neilswheels]

I think that Indent is the locator dimple used by vw to locate the bracket, the same way they did with the sunroof ramps.

I've looked again at this today, and still think the spreader is the best way, as I can definately get the width right, but i'm now going to use the nylon pins and have a spreader with holes in for the pins. This way i can take the runners out without dropping the headliner to get to the bolts holding the spreader in, just in case of maintenance, which it sounds like is a high possibility.

The front drains were a nightmare, to be fair, they all were. Passenger side wasn't too bad, a there is a factory hole in the roof to side panel almost directly below the drain hole in the sunroof channel, so this got the tube thru the roof, then I hole drilled the reinforcement sections on the side panel to get it to the floor, then thru the floor, inner sill and out the belly pan. sounds easy, took ages. Drivers side was way worse, involving holes in the roof, yep, holes. rear corners also a pain, more holes in the roof, and drilling thru the joint between the roof panel and rear quarter. I should point out that the roof needs painting, so i wasn't too fussed about the holes, but I really cant see how you'd do it any other way.

I've taken loads of pics, plan to do a post on it all when its finally done.

[SGKent]

[neilswheels]

Thought i'd update this with my fix.

Out of 25x25x3mm stainless angle, I made a spreader bar with a radius to match the inside of the sunroof tray.

I then worked out where to put the holes for the pins, drilled the holes, then taped it to the rails and pushed the rails into the sunroof cavity to make sure it worked/fitted.

All good, so while the spreader was back there, I measured from the back of the roof opening to the back of the spreader, transfered this measurement inside the roof, then marked it for the fixing holes.
Then I pulled the spreader back out, drilled the holes in the sunroof tray, pushed the spreader/rails back in, and marked the spreader through the holes.

Spreader back out, drilled and tapped for m6, then final fit, back in and screwed up.

Thanks for all your input.