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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Am I the only one that thinks these cars are ugly?
I feel like $500K should be a car that has some actual demand and is a known car in the general collector marketplace. |
not well balanced with the headlights, and ugly wheels for sure.
this is a race car, not a sports car. this is the 550 spyder of the coachbuilt VW world. Denzel made the highest output 36hp based engine back in the day. very top level.
I would guess that every collector who owns a Denzel also owns several other better looking old sporty VW/porsche cars which are not as fast as the Denzel. I would also guess that they are hardly ever driven, and driven hard not at all.
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Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
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kdfkid
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2004
Posts: 395
Location: Hessisch Oldendorf Germany
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:29 pm Post subject: Denzel |
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We use our Denzel often and it is a lot of fun driving it as you sit almost on the floor 
Christian |
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Haupt Strasse Motors
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Harriman, MY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:46 pm Post subject: Denzel cars |
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As someone who has driven almost every type of production Volkswagen and Porsche model ever produced plus some of the race cars and a Denzel. I will tell you that I agree that a Denzel belongs on the track or in the paddock between the 904 and the Carrera speedster in every way. A Denzel does not just talk the talk they can walk the walk!
I can't think of a faster, better handling or fun way anyone every managed to utilize spit window VW parts however, I have never driven a Glockler. |
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356 seppe
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: belgium (antwerpen)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| So for all the people who advertise on forums everywhere wtb now it's your chance put your wallet on the table |
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356 seppe
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: belgium (antwerpen)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| everyone is always looking for Gmund. 356 bumper body. Hebmüller. Dannenhauer.Rometsch beeskow.Rometsch lawrence and if there is one for sale'than they starting to complain about the price |
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overrestored
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 356 seppe wrote: |
| everyone is always looking for Gmund. 356 bumper body. Hebmüller. Dannenhauer.Rometsch beeskow.Rometsch lawrence and if there is one for sale'than they starting to complain about the price |
356 Seppe,
I posted the price because everyone is always waiting to know the price of these types of cars when they come up for sale. Usually nobody gets to see the asking/selling prices of Gmunds, Glocklers, Denzels, Beeskows, etc...
I didn't post it because I feel that it is too expensive.
These types of cars usually sell quietly and secretly and nobody ever sees the price.
A few of the follow up comments are about the price... and seem to mostly confirm the price is correct I think... with a few saying they would rather have a different car or two for that price.
Mostly the follow up comments center around whether the car is ugly or not.
It is a rare and fun car... which used to be much less expensive... like a lot of other rare cars. I think the price escalation of rare and desirable cars makes people mad that they hadn't been able to purchase one "back in the day". I made a joke about the type of buyer who can afford this car now... and that he is a usually a very wealthy racer. But I am not saying the car isn't worth it.
I wish the seller a successful sale. I also wish that the cars were cheaper than they are now so more people could afford them. But I also wish beachfront property on the French Riviera was cheaper!
C'est la vie!
Best,
Eric Meyer
_________________
some cars
some bicycles
some old skateboards
One cool crazy cat
a yard full of fruit trees
26 chairs for some reason
a crapload of old shoes
a lot of books on history of the Mexican Ranchos
200+ kamax bolts... stacked in rows |
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overrestored
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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also... 356 Seppe
I am IN LOVE with the cars you build! Beautiful!
_________________
some cars
some bicycles
some old skateboards
One cool crazy cat
a yard full of fruit trees
26 chairs for some reason
a crapload of old shoes
a lot of books on history of the Mexican Ranchos
200+ kamax bolts... stacked in rows |
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356 seppe
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: belgium (antwerpen)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I did not say this about your Erick .if you go to the classifieds you only read wtb for big money. and if there is one for sale nobody buys it |
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356 seppe
Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2014
Posts: 30
Location: belgium (antwerpen)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| and thanks for the comment on my projects |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69823
Location: Phoenix Metro
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e_bingel
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2006
Posts: 428
Location: Ca
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| Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry you would need to have some bolts missing in your head if you bought that ugly car for $610.000....... THAT IS ONE UGLY CAR!!!
_________________
Ethan
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Jacks
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: San Clemente, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:06 am Post subject: |
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This is one of those types of car that looks much nicer in person. Photos don't really do them justice.
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Jack Staggs
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overrestored
Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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and now there is one for sale here on Samba!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1744028
Two in the same month... crazy.
_________________
some cars
some bicycles
some old skateboards
One cool crazy cat
a yard full of fruit trees
26 chairs for some reason
a crapload of old shoes
a lot of books on history of the Mexican Ranchos
200+ kamax bolts... stacked in rows |
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Stephbong
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2010
Posts: 167
Location: Brussels
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| 356 seppe wrote: |
| if you go to the classifieds you only read wtb for big money. and if there is one for sale nobody buys it |
You are right about this fact.
Most people with WTB ads for something rare only want something for far below the market rate. |
Not the same players, but it already starts with OG 3 fold rag for example.
Sorry but if I've something that another person wants my temptation would be to higher the price instead of lower it.
Or the correct add title shoulb be like "WTB rare for cheap because I want to make a good deal, please". |
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Blauchen L331
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011
Posts: 1269
Location: Gainesville, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:24 am Post subject: |
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I drove one of Peter Denzel's personal cars in Vienna in 1992 and it was a remarkable experience, the high revs of the motor, the unsync transmission/crashbox, the noise and excitement of driving on the original Ringstrasse...... 
The cars have all the feel and fun of a 356 Porsche Carrera Speedster, except your lower and more comfortable.
The rebodied car looks to be in 100% order and original as long as no Porsche 356 parts are in it.
Price, should be in the $225 to $275k range tops, ($610k) NO ONE will pay what they are asking, it's a rare sportscar, that maybe less than 200 people in the whole world even care about and can afford.
Tom
_________________
OG PAINT L331 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Navy In Germany/ Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 36,500 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR
Last edited by Blauchen L331 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Blauchen L331
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011
Posts: 1269
Location: Gainesville, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Pretty car (with the beautiful early body) .........BUT maybe 45% original, all the Porsche parts are WRONG, not one Denzel had Porsche parts built in it before the Company/Dealer stopped making the cars, all the 356 stuff came into the cars as they broke years down the road......Denzel parts were next to impossible to find and I can see why this early racer got Porsche parts added it was a well used race car and it was practical, ok if you want to continue racing as well.
I'd just like to see another "early" car get brought back to stock, there's fewer stock Denzel's left then Porsche modified ones......
*Ohh and BTW this information is directly from the founders Son Peter who I met and interviewed in the 1990's for the VVWCA*
Wolfgang Denzel and Dr. Porsche were personally NOT GOOD FRIENDS, so he made it a personal quest to make a car as good as the Doctor's was and without his ideas or parts, Denzel used many VW parts in the beginning, but after 1954, only the motor, transmission and some suspension parts were VW, the rest of the car was handmade with various open market European car parts used, nothing Porsche.
This car would make a great restoration project, just getting it all correct again would cost a small fortune, (the 4 lug Borrani wheels would take forever to find) either way, I can bet the car is already overpriced like most of these already are.
Tom
_________________
OG PAINT L331 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Navy In Germany/ Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 36,500 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR
Last edited by Blauchen L331 on Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:22 am; edited 2 times in total |
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usariemen
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1745
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Blauchen L331 wrote: |
| overrestored wrote: |
Two in the same month... crazy. |
I can bet the car is already overpriced like most of these already are.
Tom |
But with now two for sale.
That doubles the supply while the demand is the same.
Does that mean the price has to be cut in half? 
_________________
Master of my domain! |
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Blauchen L331
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011
Posts: 1269
Location: Gainesville, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| usariemen wrote: |
| Blauchen L331 wrote: |
| overrestored wrote: |
Two in the same month... crazy. |
I can bet the car is already overpriced like most of these already are.
Tom |
But with now two for sale.
That doubles the supply while the demand is the same.
Does that mean the price has to be cut in half? |
Well, I look at the Denzel in reality, last ones sold were just a few years ago, in the $95k to $150k range and they went to ultra private collections, these two might sell, but not at the prices they are asking, one car is incomplete/45% original and full of Porsche parts and one car seems to be a factory rebuild of a 1959 spec car, with all correct Denzel parts, just crazy priced, at $610k I could buy a nice 356A Carrera and have a chunk of change left over, enough to buy a 1966 Shelby GT350.....
The owners of these cars were at the right place and time to be able to buy one, with less then 70 cars made and only about 45, or 50 still left it's a car they can ask anything they want for it, I just really don't believe that anyone's gong to buy a Denzel for $610k.
The other early car, no one has a price on yet, I would predict $250k or possibly more, it's a nice car, but could i even afford to have a Denzel (which I'm not until I can win the Florida lottery) that car would need to be torn down and gone through and all the Porsche parts removed and all the funky European parts Wolfgang used to be sought out and recovered and then a re-restoration, an early split window car is very beautiful when it's restored correctly, all Denzel's are really Beautiful cars, I saw one in Pennsylvania when I was young (that car still exists) and I've loved them since then.
BTW I ran the Denzel registry back in the 1980's and 90's and that's when I met Peter and was able to drive a REAL ONE and a small dream came true.
I also had the largest collection of Denzel literature in the world, including original letters from owners and letters of sale of original cars etc. all sold to a prominent Porsche/Denzel owner collector up North....so I do know about these strange little cars.
These cars are really like unicorns, you love them or hate them, they have a charm like a Bug Eye Sprite but the Porsche Killer instinct, they beat all the small English machines on the track, MG/Austin Healey/Triumph etc. and also the 1500 and under Porsche's, only the full race narrow bodied Denzel's had a chance to keep up with the Factory Carrera's and they only built like 8 to 10 of them, so their was no competition.
As Peter told me, they were obsolete by the time the last car was made in 1959 and Denzel had alot more important things to do with their company, like help SAVE BMW in Munich, but that's another story for another time.....
I think BOTH these cars WILL SELL, just not as high as the sellers expect, it is very rare to have 2 Denzel's for sale at the same time, I have a gut feeling the early one from Mr. Haupt will go back to Austria, (hopefully to be fully restored) and what about the Belgian one? Geeze even if I won the lottery I wouldn't give him more than $300k for it, lol!!!!
If I had $610k to spend on a car, I'd spend $40k on a Denzel motor and a decent 54' Oval to put it into and what's left $570k for a nice house with a garage to park it in. HA! 
Arnulf Pilhatsch driving his famous WD 1300 DENZEL Beetle during the 1958 International Austrian Alpine Rally.
Tom
_________________
OG PAINT L331 1957 TYPE 1 OVAL WINDOW
(US Navy In Germany/ Special Ordered Car from MAHAG Munich)
Delivered with Semaphores - German "Puntchen" Cloth Polkadotted Interior -
USA RAM Protection/Export Overrider Bumpers - MPH Speedometer -
Sealed Beam Headlights and Bullet Front Turn Signals!
99.9% ORIGINAL PARTS WITH ONLY 36,500 ORIGINAL MILES/ GARAGE FIND/ UNRESTORED CAR |
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henry roberts
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2003
Posts: 1275
Location: australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Tom, do you have any more info or pictures of the denzel mod'ed beetle?
i'm sure there are plenty of guys in the vintage speed forum who'd love to know more. Hint hint. |
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Dr OnHolliday
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012
Posts: 1215
Location: was Escondido now San Berdoo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:07 am Post subject: |
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I was just reading the jan 1958 edition of sports car illustrated, which had an article on the 1300 Denzel Super...a by-gawd sports racer...
A previous edition had an article about the Denzel engine kit that developed 65 hp from 1284 cc in a streetable engine.
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust |
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