| Author |
Message |
Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: 2176 Combo |
 |
|
Looking for some comments regarding a 2176 combo I am piecing together.
Overall I'm looking for a street motor with good strong midrange that will still pull out to 6000-6500.
I'm particularly curious about my cam and head choice, as from my research, there seems to be a wide range of expected power from them. Some threads I read make me think the FK-43 is too small, but other threads and the cam specs themselves suggest a good fit for my goals. Is the cam too much for the heads, or just right?
2176cc
78.4 DPR Crank
5.5" CB H-beam rods, VW journal
94B Mahles
Autolina AL case
DRD L5 ported 40x35.5 heads
Engle FK-43
Bugpack 1.4's
CB 28mm lightweight lifters
Induction via 40mm GSXR throttle bodies (controlled via Megasquirt)
1-5/8" merged header w/dynomax muffler
Nominally 9.6:1 or so (dynamic should be 7.4)
Thoughts? Should I change the head or cam for my desired power band? What kind of power band should I expect? Guestimates on peak hp?
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut
Last edited by Vee Dub Nut on Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
The fk43 will work with the L5s but will peak quickly. If you want stronger midrange and upper rpm pull past 6500 youll need to change heads to bigger valves and cam closer to an fk10 imo. Another consideration is go to a FK8 with the L5s. The cam has snap off idle and has decent midrange. That will be the compromise imo.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
FK43 will pull to right about 6000, FK44 to 6500.
_________________
EMPI Power Rules! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
k@rlos
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2012
Posts: 485
Location: Suffolk, England
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jfats808 wrote: |
| The fk43 will work with the L5s but will peak quickly. If you want stronger midrange and upper rpm pull past 6500 youll need to change heads to bigger valves and cam closer to an fk10 imo. Another consideration is go to a FK8 with the L5s. The cam has snap off idle and has decent midrange. That will be the compromise imo. |
I have a 2110, FK8, L5's and 48 IDF's. Pulls hard to 7000 rpm and that's in my 1970 westy 
Great combo IMO |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15307
Location: Deep in the 405
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FK-8 with the L5 heads. If you go bigger heads and cam then your probably going to need bigger throttle bodies also.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The FK-8 and FK-43 are pretty well the same cam except for .001 lift and 6 degrees duration.
Are you guys talking preference or is there an actual difference in those two cams????
Just asking a question to learn something not flaming.....
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bajaman65
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Borrego Springs
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think the combo you have will be a great street engine. It seems that most advice is for a screaming drag motor. I have a 2387 that can pull up to 7K but I find that driving around on the street I shift at about 5 - 6K, it is really no fun revving the shit out your engine all of the time.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Fk44 and stage II's. It won't disappoint. Perfect street cam. Pulls like a big block Chevy.... I shift at 6200-6500 but it can rev to 7200 no problem.
_________________
62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bret Young
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 756
Location: Turlock, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: Re: 2176 Combo |
|
|
| Vee Dub Nut wrote: |
Looking for some comments regarding a 2176 combo I am piecing together.
Overall I'm looking for a street motor with good strong midrange that will still pull out to 6000-6500.
2176cc
78.4 DPR Crank
5.5" CB H-beam rods, VW journal
94B Mahles
Autolina AL case
DRD L5 ported 40x35.5 heads
Engle FK-43
Bugpack 1.4's
CB 28mm lightweight lifters
Induction via 40mm GSXR throttle bodies (controlled via Megasquirt)
1-5/8" merged header w/dynomax muffler
Nominally 9.6:1 or so (dynamic should be 7.4)
Thoughts? Should I change the head or cam for my desired power band? What kind of power band should I expect? Guestimates on peak hp? |
Dang Adam,
Looks like we are going to be building almost identical motors. Here is the combo that I have been collecting parts for:
2176cc
-78.4 DPR Crank
-CB H-Beams (Havent decided between 5.4 or 5.5 yet)
-94mm Wiseco Super Squish Pistons/94mm slip in cylinders from Brothers
-RIMCO machined AH case (stroker clearance, 90.5 bore, FF, case savers, decked, fresh line bore, etc.)
-Steve Tims Stage 2 42x37 heads - Stepped up from my Los Panchitos 40x35's
-Web 86b cam
-CB 1.4:1 Rocker Arms
-Whatever brand lifters suggested by Web Cam
-40mm IDF Throttle Bodies (Megasquirt)
-Crank Trigger Ignition (36-1 wheel on Berg Equalizer pulley, LS2 Coil Near Plug, Megasquirt controlled)
-1-5/8" A1 Sidewinder
-Up in the air on the CR at this point. With normal flat top pistons, the CR is recommended at 9.5:1. But with the Super Squish pistons, people bump the compression all the way up to 12:1. I considered going to 11:1, but will most likely keep it a little more modest set it between 10.5 and 11:1.
Should be fun.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2165, not 2176, but you get the idea
AS41 Mag Case
Old school Berg 78mm crank
5.5" 311B rods
AA 94's
Steve Long Racing XR310-106 cam
CB Straight cuts
Scat pro comp 1.4 rockers
Tims Stage 2+ heads (42x37.5)
9.5:1 on pump 92
48 IDA's
174hp/185 ft. lbs. at the crank with the belt on
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sounds like there is two schools of thought here, keep the combo as is for a mild mannered street motor, or bump up both the heads and cam for more top end pull.
I've PMed another member running the L5's with the FK43, and they report the engine easily pulling to 6000. I think the FK43 will likely hit the wall very quickly past that, but for a 100% street motor, I don't think that is an issue.
My last NA motor was a 2276 with Tims STG2's and the CB 2288 (fk8ish) cam. It was a great motor. I'm more just wondering how different the new engine would be with the smaller heads and cam change. Sort of what is the top end vs midrange trade off between the two?
Essentially the FK43 has the advertised duration of the Engle 110, but the 0.050" duration of the 120. Thus I'd expect it to act more like the 120 than the 110. The valve opening rate should be good for torque production. I'm thinking for a strong midrange street motor, this might be a great choice. I'm thinking that it would easily run the windy old hill country roads around here with minimal shifting needed as a result of a wide midrange powerband.
I'm still on the fence as to which way I will really go, but I appreciate the input.
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As the old saying goes, the power's in the heads. Air pump....air in, air out. Let it breath, it'll make power.
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sure... That said, the 40x35.5 L5s are no stock port head. DRD claims they can be capable of 170hp. Now that is likely out at the end of the spectrum, but I'd bet with some good CR, 155 or so is possible with them and the FK43, with loads of torque to boot.
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MURZI
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 5063
Location: Madisonville, La
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My fk44 drives like a w110...... All torque. Wish you were closer so you could drive it.
I found this dyno graph on a speedster forum...I believe this was 40x37 heads..rwhp. http://www.spyderclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10602
_________________
62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bret Young
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2006
Posts: 756
Location: Turlock, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Vee Dub Nut wrote: |
| My last NA motor was a 2276 with Tims STG2's and the CB 2288 (fk8ish) cam. It was a great motor. I'm more just wondering how different the new engine would be with the smaller heads and cam change. Sort of what is the top end vs midrange trade off between the two? |
Adam,
What was the numbers of your old combo? I remember when you built it (saw Youtube videos of the break in/first fire...no longer on youtube), but never saw anything regarding what the motor actually made. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vee Dub Nut
Samba Member
Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1184
Location: Dallas, GA
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I never had it on the dyno, so no idea what it made. My guess, somewhere between 165-175 @ crank.
It was a fun motor to drive. Seemed strong all over from what I remember.
I got hung up playing with turbos again shortly after I had finished that motor, so it ended up getting a CR drop and a turbo after about 6 months or so. It was first setup with a single throttle, played with two different cams, then I took it apart to set up ITBs on it and I never got it back together. Fast forward to now, 2+ years, I still haven't driven the car since. Lack of solid motivation on any given engine idea, and general life/kids has kept me busy.
I thought those videos were still up on YouTube... I'll have to go check and reload if they are not.
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006
67 Beetle (TBD)
74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hotrodvw wrote: |
2165, not 2176, but you get the idea
AS41 Mag Case
Old school Berg 78mm crank
5.5" 311B rods
AA 94's
Steve Long Racing XR310-106 cam
CB Straight cuts
Scat pro comp 1.4 rockers
Tims Stage 2+ heads (42x37.5)
9.5:1 on pump 92
48 IDA's
174hp/185 ft. lbs. at the crank with the belt on |
Hi, at what rpm peak horsepower?
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dyno'd to 6k
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hotrodvw wrote: |
| Dyno'd to 6k |
So nomore power after 6k rpm or you just stop at 6k rpm?
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hotrodvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 6327
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
We pulled to 7k, but the increase was minimal. Best #'s were at 6k
_________________
'67 Sunroof
Eric
78x94 with IDA's....oober fun
Horsepower is an addiction........Addictions cost
lots of money!
Hose & Fittings |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
