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58chevybiscayne
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: 1972 volkswagen voltage regulator problems |
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| Hi I am brand new to this and am in need of desperate help for my sisters 1972 volkswagen. The problem is we have gone through two generators and now the voltage regulator keeps blowing. Ive put in 2 brand new ones and the car will charge for a bit and then on the second or third start up the regulator will blow and I can hear a distinct pop. I have also noticed that when you pull the light switch it pops and sparks could this be the problem. I work on mainly ww2 trucks and jeeps so the volkswagen is a new animal to me. We are both military vets so any help would be greatly appreciated. I was a Navy seabee she was an army combat medic. Thank you |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Post picture of the generator, so we can determine whether you reallt have the stock set-up generator, or if someone upgraded to an alternator.
Those would use different voltage regulators, and later alternators have built-in regulator.
Search Speedy Jim's site to test the generator separately to make sure that's OK first.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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So here is a picture of the setup I took this morning,I also took a picture of the burned up regulator. I noticed the other day that the black wire that connects to the top of the two prongs sparks meaning it has constant power is this correct?
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Your generator is miswired! There should be NO sparking! Do you have a wiring diagram? They are available from this site via
the "Technical" menu at the top.
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I can see it doesnt look like its wired wrong. I replaced the wires the same way as I took them off and she had run the bug for over a month with no problems before the old generator went bad. I will go look at the car tomorrow,It was really cold and windy today, I also believe the light switch ha something to do with this as it sparks when pulled or pushed and has shut the car down, is the a good replacement out there,Pat |
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kreemoweet
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Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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There's not a single item in a VW that is supposed to spark or burn up when turned on/off. It's a lot cheaper to test
your wiring with a multimeter, than it is to use new generators/alternators to check your wiring. Your photo says
there is obviously something badly wrong with your wiring. Check it out.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Ill have to get out there tomorrow and go through the car, the wiring looks old to me and ive suggested putting in a new harness. |
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58chevybiscayne
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok guys Im still at a loss here so ive gone through the wiring to the best of my knowledge I,ve replaced the headlight switch, taken the radio out as it was drawing constant power and now my issue is still the regulator. I have a new one but im afraid to put it in as I dont want it to blow, wiring is not my strong point, The red and white wire that comes off the battery cable and goes directly to the top post of the regulator is sparking bad when touched on the side of the regulator telling me that there is a complete circuit somewhere, Ive checked the diagram and cant put my finger on it, is there any one I could call, whats the best way to test the wiring in this car and what could be causing this,Pat |
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds a bit like the regulator is not opening and the generator is shorted to ground. Two independent problems.
That would explain both why it blows new regulators, and also why you are sparking all the time.
The light switch is weird though.
Do you possibly have the battery wired backwards??
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| So what should I check for,Im not really happy with the parts ive been getting from napa as the first generator I got from them was brand new and it was missing a screw from D+ on the inside of the generator. The bug is a little cramped when it comes to wiring and I thought my 42 ford jeep was cramped. The light switch I believe was a cheap after market so I replaced that today. I feel as if a new wiring harness is needed. I'll go out again tomorrow and look at the car. Its been cold lately but tomorrow itll be in the 30s so thats a plus,Pat |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Above it was mentioned to look at Speedy Jim's site for the normal generator charging troubleshooting - did you do that? There was no link provided (it's here: http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/gen.htm )
I don't trust electrical items from chain auto parts stores - seen too many blems out of the box. |
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MacLeod Willy
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Joined: February 18, 2014
Posts: 933
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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I shudder when I hear about pulling a new harness because something isn't working properly.
Don't do that, please. Unless you have them melted together by now 
Like the others say, it sounds like the generator, or the wiring connections.
Did you check the battery for correct polarity like Abscate asked?
Kreemowest, this is priceless
"There's not a single item in a VW that is supposed to spark or burn up when turned on/off. It's a lot cheaper to test
your wiring with a multimeter, than it is to use new generators/alternators to check your wiring. Your photo says
there is obviously something badly wrong with your wiring. Check it out." |
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Pocketlint
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Joined: March 21, 2009
Posts: 30
Location: houston
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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While the picture is not really that CLEAR ( can you get another of both
the gen and connections at the VR?
it looks to me that the wire on the RH post the DF post is BROWN?
Which is GROUND and should not be connected there?
meaning perhaps the wires are connected to the gen wrong
(even if you say you connected it all back the way it was wired
previously it could have been wired wrong?
A check of the wiring ( to make sure some one just did not splice
on a patch or wrong color wire further back up the loom in the engine
compartment or something) against a colored wire diagram from the
Bentley Manual or the site posted by glutamodo "Speedy Jim's" has
some great wiring info! |
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Ok so I checked the wiring and df was green and d+ was red and black with a little black wire . So I disconnected these two wires and sure enough the sparking had stopped, So that narrows it down, I tried each wire one at a time and the sparking against the regulator continued only when both were disconnected did it stop here is a picture of the regulator the right side the black wire is disconnected,Pat
upload foto |
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Cusser
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Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Where does that smaller red with white stripe (on left or rear side of regulator in the photo) actually attach on that regulator (can't tell)?
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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58chevybiscayne
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Joined: January 04, 2015
Posts: 12
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| it is screwed to the left side of the regulator along with a grey wire,Pat |
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Pocketlint
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Joined: March 21, 2009
Posts: 30
Location: houston
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| 58chevybiscayne wrote: |
| it is screwed to the left side of the regulator along with a grey wire,Pat |
That's at least one part of your trouble. That red white stripe is attached
the where the brown GROUND should be.
In this picture below from the gallery you can see that spot is an "open lug"
as this picture shows the brown ground is screwed under one of the mounting screws. ( acceptable as still grounded but technically not correct)
The red white stripe should go to the OTHER screw terminal on the LH side
in the picture
I would still like to see a picture of the wiring on the generator up close in good light as well.
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Aussiebug
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Joined: June 03, 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Adelaide Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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The "To starter" wire should read "To positive post on battery cable." This is a generator equipped bug, so the red wire with unregulated power from the generator (D+) MUST run through the regulator (B+) before attaching to the battery positive terminal.
On cars with an internally-regulated alternator, the red wire from the alternator (now B+) has regulated power, so it can track direct to the battery positive terminal, or be attached the the heavy battery cable mounted on the starter solenoid - either will take charging power to the battery positive terminal.
The "To?" wire runs forwards to any one of the terminal 30s on the headlight switch, which is used as a junction box by VW.
For further info, imagine that the generator in the above pic is now an internally regulated alternator. To change the wiring, you remove the regulator and have four wires ends. D+ is now B+ so the heavy red wires are connected together (making a three way splice) - this gives alternator power both the battery and the car's electrics, and connect the blue and green wires (Df) together so the dash Alt light works. A very simple wiring change when fitting an internally regulated alternator to a generator bug.
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Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
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Joel
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Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Wow no wonder it keeps blowing stuff up you have the generator output wire connected straight to ground.
It's meant to go on the D+ not the ground screw.
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Make sure the connector is no where near the metal case after you attach it. If it touches the case you will ground it again.
I think that is going to solve your problems, although your generator might have been toasted by bring run while grounded
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