| Author |
Message |
76VDubya
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014
Posts: 153
Location: Ohio
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:59 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| andk5591 wrote: |
2 points about power amp and speaker ratings and someone correct me if I am wrong. In a previous life I did a LOT of work with professional sound reinforcement systems.
The general rule of thumb was that there was no issue running a higher (and I mean a LOT higher) power amp relative to the speaker power handling capability. Typically we would use at least double. We would have subs that were rated at 400W RMS and would typically drive them with a 1000 watt amp.
The logic was that clean signal was rarely an issue. It was when the signal was clipped by the amp (distortion) is where you damaged the speakers since you are essential sending a square wave to the speakers instead of a sine wave, which has more energy at the peaks. Rarely fried speakers, so I have no issue exceeding speaker rating with a power amp. Obviously I am not dumping 1000 watts into a speaker rated for 10 watts, but 200 RMS into a speaker rated for 100 is no issue.
Another thing that was told to me by a Crutchfield support person a couple years ago was that you DON'T want a speaker rated for a higher wattage than your amp. I asked why - they didnt have a real answer. I think that is silly.
Anyway OP - los of opinions and many ways to skin a cat. In general most of the current stuff available is decent quality unless you are super serious, then the higher end stuff does make a difference.
One more thing and I have repeated this many times. Sensitivity rating is IMPORTANT. Example: 100 watts into a speaker with a sensitivity of 93 will give the same amount of sound as a 400 watts into a speaker rated at 87 and 800 watts into a speaker rated at 84 db. |
I agree with you for the most part, but I would say that over-powering speakers isn't always a good idea. It all depends on how loud and what length of time you play the system, how well the speakers are built, and how much distortion is in the system. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
The second Kicker sub you listed was a lot better than the first one. Man, I wish I knew JBL was discontinuing the GT08 - I would have bought a couple to stash. Have not seen any subs that are as sensitive without spending a ton of money. The Kicker still wants a minimum of .5 cu ft sealed enclosure. So, you need to figure out what kind of box that you need to get make. Depending on where you are installing it, keep in mind that it does not need to be square or rectangular.
If you have never built cabinets, it's not hard for simple boxes. You just want to use a good quality plywood with minimal voids, or MDF is really nice. Glue, screw, and caulk. Not hard.
Funny thing I just thought about though - have pretty nice systems in a couple of the cars - but I rarely listen to tunes except when on a really long drive and my brain got fried from working out build ideas.... 
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the help. I read reviews about that jbl and definitely it looks like it was a great bass. Wish they still selling them.
I actually do know how to work with wood and built part of our kitchen cabinets few yyears ago and have the tools. Never build a speaker box but it shouldn't be a problem for me. What do they use on every corner when building speaker boxes, it looks like some kind of paste, is that liquid nail?
I would use mdf.
Thanks again for helping.
I'm going to look some more for a better sub and post it here to make sure it works. Will go with amp I have to save some money and get the equalizer. What do u think of the legacy Lxr 7A cross over, what is that for, hold I use it or no, it came with the whole thing but never new it's purpose. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If doing a sealed cabinet, its really simple. The sub spec sheet will give you min and max internal volume. Figure out what you need to build to meet that criteria and fit in the space you want. Basic woodworking - glue and screw. Can be simple joints. I like to run a bead of caulk on the inside just because I am OCD. Stuff it with fiberglass batt - not jammed - just loose. Thats it.
Would suggest looking at your amp - they usually have built in crossovers. HP (high pass) and LP (low pass.) I think I have mine set around 80 HZ - Low pass passes the low frequencies through that channel or channels to the sub, high pass passes the higher frequencie to your full range speakers. By adjusting the volume of the sub and adjusting the bass boost along with the normal tone controls on the head unit, you will probably have more than enough adjustment to get what you want.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
76VDubya
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2014
Posts: 153
Location: Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wellcraft wrote: |
Thanks for the help. I read reviews about that jbl and definitely it looks like it was a great bass. Wish they still selling them.
I actually do know how to work with wood and built part of our kitchen cabinets few yyears ago and have the tools. Never build a speaker box but it shouldn't be a problem for me. What do they use on every corner when building speaker boxes, it looks like some kind of paste, is that liquid nail?
I would use mdf.
Thanks again for helping.
I'm going to look some more for a better sub and post it here to make sure it works. Will go with amp I have to save some money and get the equalizer. What do u think of the legacy Lxr 7A cross over, what is that for, hold I use it or no, it came with the whole thing but never new it's purpose. |
MDF (medium density fiberboard), and fiberglass, are about the best materials to use for speaker enclosures. Anything else will rattle, unless it has sound deadening applied.
With the MDF, I would recommend at least 3/4" for the baffle (the part the speaker mounts to), and at least 1/2" for the sides. MDF blocks or bracing on the inside will also help keep the vibration to a minimum.
Any kind of wood glue will work, and the joints are usually sealed with caulk, or something similar, to prevent air leakage. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| andk5591 wrote: |
The second Kicker sub you listed was a lot better than the first one. Man, I wish I knew JBL was discontinuing the GT08 - I would have bought a couple to stash. Have not seen any subs that are as sensitive without spending a ton of money. The Kicker still wants a minimum of .5 cu ft sealed enclosure. So, you need to figure out what kind of box that you need to get make. Depending on where you are installing it, keep in mind that it does not need to be square or rectangular.
If you have never built cabinets, it's not hard for simple boxes. You just want to use a good quality plywood with minimal voids, or MDF is really nice. Glue, screw, and caulk. Not hard.
Funny thing I just thought about though - have pretty nice systems in a couple of the cars - but I rarely listen to tunes except when on a really long drive and my brain got fried from working out build ideas.... |
andk5591, I was able to find and just bought a pair of jbl gto804 subs so I will be installing one of them with the amp I have.
Thank u so much for ur help, very much appreciated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cool - I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was able to get 2 of them for the price of 1, it's a great deal. They were sEllington them as a pair, $70  . One new sealed box and the other open box never used, just test fitted and includes the original box.
Thanks again for helping.
Sometimes I feel like getting a new amp and sell the old ones but not sure how much I would have to spend on a new one. The ones I have are BIG and I want to try to save as much space as possible.
We are going to be using this car to travel to my son's bmx races all over ga, sc, nc, fl and tn and we need any extra space. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have mounted the amps under the passender seat. I did shop for a size that would work for that.
This was my 65 before I installed the sub. You can see the rear of the amp just a little.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now looking at your picture made me realize that I have the computer of the car under the seat, I totally forgot about that. This is a 1999 mexican model and they came with computer. My car also has an oem air conditioner and don't have much space behind the back rest of the rear seat.
The amp I have is huge, it's 16.5" almost 13".
So I'm looking now for a new amp able to move the jbl sub plus the other speakers. I want something that I could put under the drivers seat. What would u think that works for me? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Do what I do. Go through Crutchfields site. I only install a new system every couple years when I am wrapping up a new build.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
second link doesnt work - and I dont remember the dimensions needed. Take a look at Amazon. Theres a few on there. Big thing you are after is reasonable power that matches the speaker impedance (ohms) and will fit the space you want to put it in. If you have a couple positive reviews, then thats even better. There's nothing magical about the ones I have used. I think the last amp I bought for the current project was a Boss or something like that.
And seriously, most of the times you have amp failures is when someone screws up installing and they fry it - and of course it's easy to blame the manufacturer. Not saying its all the time, but I bet you its like 90% of the time. Just take your time.
One thing I did on mine was use short stand-offs to have it sit more level if mounting under the front seat. Just used short pieces of PVC tubing. Once again - a little OCD. Something else. Since I drive my cars and do have people ride in the back, a little protective shield is not a bad idea so the wires or controls dont get kicked. A bent piece of sheet metal or something is fine. Just so it cant short things out.
Use a reasonable gauge speaker wire (NO you dont need to use welding cables or stupid expensive wires to connect your speakers). I use a spool of 16 gauge zip wire (lamp cord) for pretty much all of my stuff and it works fine. You might want to go heavier on the sub, but 14 gauge would be more that adequate. Pay close attention to the polarity of the speakers and amps - + to + and - to -. Not rocket science by any means. Good luck.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
The one from Crutchfield.com is the smallest in size but not sure if that one would have enough power. This is the other with a different link but is more money http://poweracoustik.com/store/products/amplifiers/gothic-gt/gt5-2500.html
Not sure if I should go with the Crutchfield.com amp as it's footprint is small. But wonder how it will move the speakers and amp. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That should be perfect.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| andk5591 wrote: |
| That should be perfect. |
Great thanks. I'm going to order that pioneer tonight. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah maybe a little - but the Pioneer looked fine. Make sure you use reasonably heavy power connections. They tend to suggest a bit heavier than most folks need. Keep in mind that your power draw is proportional to how hard the amp is working. They size the cables based on continuous full power and you only have momentary peaks with the bass thump. Plus I am assuming you arent wearing ear plugs while listening to the system, so keep that in mind. I would suggest 8 or 10 gauge with the hot wired direct to the battery and your ground (negative) power connection directly to the pan.
I suggest using external tooth washers behind and bolt or screw to metal that serves as an electrical connection - bites through paint better. Use the remote on/off from the head unit to turn the amp on and off. That can be a fairly light wire.
Also, while running wires, take a couple extra minutes and run a couple extra uniquely colored 16 or 18 gauge wires from the front trunk at least to under the rear seat in the event you want to ever add some gauges or anything else.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wellcraft
Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2014
Posts: 647
Location: Georgia
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
