Dad's 73 Bus - Where to Start?

[ctxman]

Hello, this is my first post here and it will probably be a long one. I’d like to give some history of this 1973 Bus and then if you stay with me I have some questions at the end. I appreciate any help you experts can give. I apologize in advance for the crappy photos but I was using an ipad and the lighting in the garage wasn’t great.

So you know how people dream of finding their dream car in an old barn or garage, long forgotten and in great condition? Well this is one of those stories….kind of. Except that I didn’t have to “find” this because it was my Dad’s. He purchased this new in ’73. Now, my dad lived on his motorcycles, including commuting to work so his cars didn’t have many miles on them. In fact it was almost a game to him to be able to tell people how low the miles were on his cars. I actually learned how to drive on this van and used to love driving it. My Dad had another car and in 1988 he stopped registering the VW and never drove it after that. He would start it up once in a while until the battery eventually died and it has pretty much been sitting untouched for the last 27 years or so, except to be used as storage space inside the car. This is a Southern California car, and has ALWAYS been parked in the garage. It was never in an accident, has no dents or scratches at all. When Dad did take it somewhere he would park far out in the parking lot so nobody would dent the car…that’s how he was. There is no rust on it except for a tiny bit of surface rust on the bumper and some pitting on the chrome handles and such but it’s minor. The care is complete and stock except for the pin striping he applied, the hubcaps, and the radio. Dad built a bed in the back which we used on camping trips but I have the original back seat which was kept up in the garage attic. I even saw the original spare wheel plastic cover although I think it has a crack in it. The head liner is flawless. When he stopped driving it, it had 42,655 miles on it…that’s all the original miles put on the car. Last registered in 88. I remember vacation trips to Texas and the Sierras in California and he never had any trouble with it.

My Dad passed away almost 4 years ago, but even before he died my younger daughter who was in High School at the time was interested in the car and wondered if he would ever part with it. Well after he passed I told my mom that my daughter was interested in it and she said we could just take it because she knew it would take some time and money to get it going and she doesn’t need the money. Well I got really busy with some international travel for work and other projects at the house and it’s still sitting in Mom’s garage. But she has put pressure on me now because she wants it out of her garage so she has more room for her new car. So it’s time I think about getting this going and at least have to move it to my garage in the next few weeks. Fortunately it’s only about a 5 mile drive so it will be a short tow. It’s completely filthy and dirty from sitting but what you see in the photos is dirt, not rust. Obviously it need major cleaning. Forgot to mention that Dad kept all records and sales receipt, brochures etc. and best I can tell about all he ever did was have the valves adjusted and changed the oil.

So that’s the back story on the van. Now before I ask a few questions, I just want to say that I’m certainly no mechanic, but I have always maintained and repaired my cars myself so I’ve pretty much done everything except for rebuilding an auto tranny (this van is manual). So I understand engines, I’m mechanically inclined, I do all my home improvement jobs etc. so I’m not afraid of tackling this car no matter how severe I have to go with it.

OK enough of that, if you are still with me here are my questions. First off, although it has low miles and is in great shape, it’s been sitting for 27 years. I know that all the hoses and rubber will have to be replaced. I’m sure the gas tank is toast or full of sludge/lacquer.

First question is, do I need to tear the engine down completely? If not to rebuild it, to clean it and reassemble? Or should I just plan on a rebuild? What level or what should I expect to have to do to the internal engine? Some have suggested that I change the oil, replace belts/hoses, get a new fuel tank and battery and then just try to see if it starts up. But I’m not sure if that’s the best thing to do or not. What say you?

Tires – they are flat and old. It looks like the Hankook RA08’s are the way to go? Should I buy from the Bus Depot or has anyone found a better deal?

Clutch – Low miles on it but I’m not sure if the age of it has compromised the material – should I expect to have to replace the clutch?

Brakes – No idea of the condition yet until I pull the wheels off but I know I’ll have to replace fluid and bleed lines – should I expect to have to replace all brake lines because of their age?

Carbs - I assume they are lacquered up and need to be cleaned and rebuilt? Should I buy Weber's or something different?

I've seen a lot of Youtube videos about rebuilding engines, although there aren't as many for the 1700's as there is for the 1600's. I found these guys at Bug Me Video http://www.bugmevideo.com/volume8.html that offer a 3 hour engine rebuild DVD for the Type 4 and their sample clips look good. Anyone familiar with their videos? I sure don't mind spending $40 if people say it's worth it.

Any other suggestions on what I should replace/repair would be appreciated it. Not my first engine but my first air cooled so I’m a newbie with VW’s.

Sorry for such a long post. I appreciate all the advice I can get. And now, for all the photos which I’m sure you already looked at before reading all this 

Thanks!
John


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[busdaddy]

Welcome John!
First off let me offer my condolences on the loss of your dad.

What an amazing gift your dad left you, that bus is beautiful!, please don't start tering parts off and tossing them out, it's only original once and that one looks like a premium example.

It shouldn't need a rebuild with low mileage like that, it likely will need new pushrod seals as well as the front and rear main seals and some gaskets. Once it's running you'll know more regarding any stuck rings or other internal issues. The tank will likely need cleaning which requires an engine drop, luckily that also makes resealing the engine easier as well as changing all the fuel and vapor lines in the fuel tank compartment.
Shop around on the tires, there's quite a few LT rated choices lately (don't buy a P rated tire).
Assume the brakes will need work, soft lines and some seals at the least, look over the shoes in the back for debonding as well.
Carbs can be cleaned, start with a good long soak in Methyl hydrate to soften the shellac.
Clutch is likely fine as it is unless it's worn, inspect when the engine's out.

Edit: There's a strong possibilty a time capsule like that still has sodium filled valves, running it may not be the best idea after all these years without some head work first.

Also take lots of pictures, many of us need to see what a relatively unmolested bus looks like.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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[Bala]

What he said^^
Plus get an engine seal (between engine tin and body). They are cheap and very easy to install.

Wonderful story and beautiful bus!
_________________
1976 Westy

1966 Beetle

[ctxman]

[ctxman]

[busdaddy]

[70westie]

Tires:

For the most part, there are:

Hankook RA08
General Grabber
BF Goodrich A/T's

If you're wanting a "Street Tire" look, the Hankooks are the way to go. The General and BFG's are more "Terrain" looking tires.. Good for adverse conditions, trails, camping.. I prefer the BFG's.. its up to you.

Obviously, it will need to roll to get it moved. If the 4-5 hundred isn't readily available for new tires, you can get some used "May-Pop's" just to get it moved.

Mechanically, Brakes are always first on my list. If it doesn't "Go" that's not as bad as if it doesn't "Stop".

You can have the kid(s) do the cleaning, interior updating (if needed with that few miles) - etc.

Remove the engine, trans, and then fuel tank.. rebuilding will be in order for the engine.. cleaning for the tank, and at the very least if you're lucky, just changing the fluid in the trans..

Always check the linkages (clutch, accelerator, shifting mechanism) for wear, play.. I would replace the clutch and accelerator cables just for safety and they're quite cheap.. Check the steering play..

Look around the classifieds.. busdepot.. cip1.. mid america motorworks.. do your homework on some of the various things you will end up needing.. You will be surprised where you can sometimes save quite a bit of money. You will find the pro's and con's.. (German vs. aftermarket china - prices - etc) Just to make a point that the classifieds here are not always cheapest.. You'd think used would be cheaper than new, but some people (for whatever, various reasons) think they're sitting on gold. (Just as an example, you can get a new clutch cable for around $6 but some on the classifieds are $20)

Go familiarize yourself with Ratwell, and read his articles.

Get yourself a good book on the bus.. I prefer "How to keep your Volkswagen alive" by John Muir.. others prefer Bently Manuals.. Wouldn't hurt to get both.

Just like any other message board, there are good and not-so-good people. For the most part, people are kind and helpful.. Use the Ignore Button liberally for those that are...less than kind

Search this board before posting. Chances are, someone has "been there, done that" and documented their experiences. If you have done your due diligence searching and can't find or don't understand, then by all means, post a new thread asking or put it in this thread.

You have a unique opportunity with your bus. Take your time. It is not going to get done overnight, and will cost you more than you think.. But in the end, it will be worth it.

-70

[71whitewesty]

Wow. Everything Busdaddy said. Absolutely fantastic bus. I really look forward to watching your progress and hope you'll post up here a lot.
Check out Sunnydogs thread.
It doesn't get any better than having a bus your Dad bought new.
So great that it was kept in the family.
_________________
71 Westy 1600 DP, all stock Bus 1
1970's Snow Trac 1600 SP (sold 12/2016)
1968 Tucker sno cat, sold 2021
1969 Tucker Sno cat 542
2017 VW Alltrac
71 tin top stock 1600 DP (project but runs)
Twin 71 White Westy, Bus 2, that I pulled from a 15 year slumber in a dry eastern WA field in 2015.
1966 Sundial Camper "Boomer"

[dasdachshund]

[nodrenim]

What you have here is, in my humble opinion, a Family Treasure. You will never get a second chance, like this. Treat it with Love, Tenderness, and Respect, and it will reward you well. Please, keep us informed of your progress. P L & H.

[Artvonne]

It depends what it means to you. The best idea is to remove the engine, disassemble, and put it back together clean with new gaskets and any new parts it needs. Most of it likely wont have much wear, but you could have rust somewhere or something you wouldn't care to run through it. Carbs are likely gummed up bad and need a long time soaking and kits. Ignition should be gone through, as you said replace all hoses, the owners manual alone probably can tell you what all would be done at 100K miles, and everything in between, just do it all.

At minimum I would replace all brake hoses, pull all the hubs and redo/pack bearings, just give it all a real good going over.

I think its cool your Dad left it for you, and cool you want it. I see so many ads for old cars and trucks some guys Dad or Grampa left them, and they just want it gone. Have fun

[wcfvw69]

What a time capsule! I also agree you couldn't have a better gift left for your from your father. I like was Busdaddy said about keeping it just the way you found it and NOT replacing items it doesn't need. With such low miles, those carbs just need to be cleaned with new gaskets/seals. You'll find on this site that most if not all of the new parts made today are not even close in the quality of the original ones. I'd replace only what is absolutely necessary.

When you pull your gas tank, it probably just needs to be flushed out. If it's rusty, you can have it hot tanked and it will remove the rust. Your original tank is MUCH better quality than anything sold today.

If I just purchased that bus, here's what I'd do-

Pull all the wheels and drums. Replace the soft brake lines, inspect, clean and repack the wheel bearings, front and rear. Check the brake linings, wheel cylinders, calipers, master cylinders for leaks. Check the CV joint boots for tears and torque on the bolts.

Pull the fuel tank and flush it. Replace every fuel line. Change the transaxle fluid and then do it again in 500 miles.

I'd inspect the clutch hook and cable and lube the assembly and replace as needed.

On the engine, to be safe you should tear it apart to inspect inside it. Hopefully nothing has rusted and you can simply clean and reseal it. Busdaddy point on the valves and it having close to 50K makes it a good time to have a valve job done anyway.

That's such an original, un-molested bus that the thought of having a young driver behind the wheel of it (not to mention the safety factor) scares me. I hope you reconsider that portion. That bus is worth some money being so un-molested and will only increase in value if it stays the way it is now.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**

[udidwht]

Hit Colin up with a PM...he'll be drooling over that 73 given the condition he might even try to get you to sell it to him
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires

[jtauxe]

My, my, that is some bus. It's a stunning "survivor".

Don't change a thing, aside from going through all the deferred maintenance that other posters have discussed.

Wow.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[Tcash]

[quote="ctxman"]I’m sure the gas tank is toast or full of sludge/lacquer.
The gas tank can be removed and cleaned at a radiator shop.
Replace all the vent lines while you are at it.
http://germansupply.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=17689&cat=&page=1
http://germansupply.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=17911&cat=385&page=2
http://germansupply.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=17978&cat=&page=1


First question is, do I need to tear the engine down completely?
Not necessary:
1. Pull and clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel filter. It can be done with the engine in.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1216459.jpg
2. Change the oil. The Oil Sump Plate Bolt is 9' ft lbs.
3. Pull the spark plugs and put a few cc's of Marvels Mystery oil down the holes. Turn the engine over by hand a few times to disperse the oil. Repeat this for a couple of days. This will get rid of any surface rust in the cylinders.
Before you put the plugs back in. Turn it over with the starter to blow out any oil left in the cylinders.
4. Rebuild the carburetors.
5. Replace the points and condenser and lube the distributor.
6. Crank it over with the plugs out, until the oil light goes out before you start it. This will prelube everything.
7. Replace the spark plugs, spark plug wires.

Tires – they are flat and old. It looks like the Hankook RA08’s are the way to go?
The Tire Sticky

Clutch – should I expect to have to replace the clutch?
No, although it may be stuck to the flywheel.

Brakes – should I expect to have to replace all brake lines because of their age?
Replace the rubber brake hoses. These are known to swell up and close off the inner diameter. You may need to replace the master cylinder, wheel cylinders and rebuild the calipers. I would send your calipers out. Don't exchange them.

Carbs - I assume they are lacquered up and need to be cleaned and rebuilt?
Have them rebuilt.
http://www.volkzbitz.com/

Should I buy Weber's or something different?
I wouldn't. The stock carbs work fine.

Anyone familiar with their videos?
No, but these books are necessary.
How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen air-Cooled Engine
Bentley Service Manual 1968-1979 Bus
Youtube Videos



Any other suggestions on what I should replace/repair would be appreciated it.
Replace trans. fluid.
Pack front and rear wheel bearings.

Sorry for such a long post. I appreciate all the advice I can get. And now, for all the photos which I’m sure you already looked at before reading all this 
Please post the pictures on Thesamba, so they are not lost if and when your Photobucket account becomes inactive. There is nothing worse than when you are reading a old post and all the pictures are gone.
How to post photos/How to post a photo in the Forums

I'd peel off the pin striping but I'm afraid that would leave a mess after being on for so many years.
3m stripe off wheel

The side marker lights are held on with plastic pins. These break off over time. Drill holes where the pins were and use a machine screw and nut to fasten the ones that broke off.

[quote="Tcash"]Here is a little information. Good Luck

Pronunciation (Samba) English

Cleaning+Rodents+Hantavirus
Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!
Volkswagen Type 2 Bus M-Plate Decoder
Bus VIN / Chassis Numbers
Type 2/Bus Owner's Manuals
Bus repair manuals
Bus parts manuals
Early Baywindow Bus Parts Book
Late Baywindow Bus Parts Fiche
Type 2 Wiring Diagrams
Model and Year Variations
Type 4: Secrets Revealed
Distributor Parts & Specifications
PARTS INTERCHANGE MANUAL
Youtube Videos

There is a ton of information located at the top of the Forum section.

[Artvonne]

[quote="Tcash"]

[chicagovw]

Woah very cool Bus. I would not take the stripes or stickers off, I would just detail every inch of that Type 2! Make sure the brakes get rebuilt and other items mentioned by other folks here-an unmothballing.

I am not sure I agree with a complete engine tear down, if I am honest. I would do the unmothballing and get it running and driving, do a compression and leak down test. How come it seems like no one can spend weeks to rebuild a Volks engine, and have it run as well or last as long, as the German lady working in Hanover that put it together in all of three minutes?

[Wasted youth]

Goodness sakes! I cannot recall a time in the past twenty years seeing a bus in that condition. Unmolested, absolute time warp.



I wish my 1973 bus was in that good of condition. You will do well to not mess with anything too much. A warm welcome to you!

[Zelten]

Wonderful story and wonderful Bus. I'm sorry about your fathers passing, he sounded like a great guy. I think most of the mechanical pointers have been given but I just want to add to the vote for keeping all the stickers on the Bus. Those pinstripes are super cool and add to it's connection to your father.
Clean that Bus up, refresh all rubber and roll as it. Beautiful Bus!
_________________
1978 Delux Campmobile
03 Jetta TDI
15 Q7 TDI

[1967250s]

What a total treasure! Get the Bentley manual. Does the engine turn at all? I'd bet not. Looks like the engine has significant corrosion-you can see the flaking, and it probably continues inside. I'd really recommend a tear down. The cam and followers have been sitting without oil for too long and probably have rust, along with rust at the piston rings, freezing the engine. Not to mention the ancient oil seals. Start by draining the oil, that'll show you what you're dealing with. Good recommendations on the brakes previously( interestingly, Bays have an excellent stopping capability when they are taken care of). RA08's- love them! Trans is probably fine, but change fluid. Keep the stripes! Totally original. Get the body and chassis Waxoiled thoroughly-this will keep it rust free(wish I had done that in '88 when I bought mine_lots of rust to deal with now!). There will be a myriad of small stuff when you get running, but mostly easy to remedy, and TS( The Samba) is your friend. Totally jealous and Best of luck!
_________________
'72 Elm Green Deluxe