Squats

[bradself]

My car seems pretty squatish but I don't really have a reference as this is the only T4 I've ever driven. I seem to recall reading that when the strut inserts fail they fail up, pushing the back end down and exaggerating the nose high lift, maybe I'm misremembering.

But here's another thing: measured at the bottom edge of the back bumper impact strip, when I put the car in gear it drops 5/8"+. Normal or mushy springs? --Brad

[raygreenwood]

The car pivots about the rear axle. The bumper hangs out rearward about another 3+ feet from the axle centerline. When the nose tips up.....the whole car pivots about the rear axle. The bumper drops lower.

Typically the springs in the rear really dont get much sag. If the shocks in the rear are shot and the front struts are shot....the car squats about an inch in the rear. This looks worse because the nose is high.Ray

[Mike Fisher]

vwfye cut his front springs down to level his 412 wagon.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[19super73]

[raygreenwood]

Im on the road through next week I am about two evenings away from posting the strut rebuild series. I wont be able to do much this week. Down to placing text now.

The audi strut mod will get your sills dead level by lowering the front about an inch. You can go a little lower if you want to mix and match bump stup bushings and a few spacers. Sorry its taking so long. Ray

[412Variant]

Ray, I see that you are on the road. I've sent you a PM regarding the Audi KYB strut cartridge. Have you read it.
Awaiting your response....

412 Variant.

[raygreenwood]

[bradself]

[raygreenwood]

The low pressure bilsteins "might" work if the gas pressure is not too high. One thing for sure is that if you use high pressure gas like KYB Gr-2.....it absolutely WILL break things fast. Been there.

In the rear you need camber and toe-in. Toe-in is there from the factory. Camber.....can be added. ...but its very different. Not, hard to do fabricating wise....just that your rear trailing arms, shocks, springs and sway bar must come off to do it.

When you have the trailing arms off.....if you look into the slotted holes in the crossmember....you will see that there is an aluminum spacer...literally a block of aluminum with holes in it....that floats between the two sides of the hollow crossmember. This is there to make sure that when you bolt down the yokes for the trailing wishbone. ....it does not squeeze yje crossmember and crush it.

So.....you take a die grinder and enlarge the slots in both sides of the crossmember. ...on the top side only. Then....underneath on the bottom of the Cross member directly under the floating aluminum block. ....you drill a 10mm hole. Thread the hole. Put in a short 10mm bolt with a locknut.
Then....install the trailing wishbone and pivot yokes.
When you get it aligned...slightly loosen the nuts on the inner yoke.....and tighten the vertical 10mm bolt underneath. This drives the aluminum spacer block upward. ...and the pivot point of the trailing wishbone with it......adjusting the camber. Lock the pivot point hold down bolts...done.

The front castor....about 75% of what you need is already installed from the factory. Right now.....you can split the castor adjustment side to side to make it equal....but you cannot make it have more castor.

The three bolts that hold the front T shaped cross member to the body....thread into captive nuts held in slots in the body. The two forward captive nuts only slide side to side. The nut in the rear....slides fore and aft only.

To make fully adjustable castor.....you remove the T shaped subframe and slot the forward two holes......so the whole subframd may slide forward and be locked down. This moves the control arms forward with it....and the struts are attached at the ends of the control arms. This increases castor. You still retain the ability to tilt the subframe from side to side to also make sure its equal.
But once you move the subframe quite a bit to one side...it can screw with camber.....so also slot the bolt holes for the control arm pivot points....and put an eccentric bolt there as well. So now.....everything is fully adjustable. Ray

[bradself]

Okay, factory rear camber is -1^. Ray, did you go more negative, esp. w/the 3/4 ton econoline shock?

[raygreenwood]

[bradself]

[raygreenwood]

I just pulled about 20 pictures from my drive of the castor and camber mods to the front end. I will post them later today when I get back to my hotel.

In a pinch....you can do the camber mod without welding. It requires marking the slot length around the bolt holes for the control arms.....and grinding the slots with a die grinder or dremel. The points that the eccentric bolt rides against I welded on. But if you wanted to....since there will never be any real tension against them from the eccentric washer on the bolt....you could use 1/4-20 screws to hold the stop tabs on.

I did something a little different. I welded blocks on each side of the slot for the eccentric to bear against ....mainly so I could use 6mm hex head screws to lock the eccentric in place. I did this because....I am not using more than about 25 pounds of torque on the control arm bushing bolt.

I have delrin bushings with delrin spacer flanges. If you tighten the bushing bolt very tight....it crushes the delrin too hard. It wont crack it.....but is causes very fast wear. So I tighten until snug....and I use a cotter pin through the bolt with a castle nut.

It wears less and moves smoother.

The castor slots.....probably could be done several ways....weld in a machined insert....or do like I did.....which also requires welding .....you will see from the pictures. You could also probably just grind out the slots and tube....and drop in a steel bar with a slot and tighten it down....but it would have to be cleanly machined. Ray

[bradself]

Pics would be fantastic Ray thanks. Depending upon the existing possible vertical travel in the rear cross member horizontal slots I can imagine what you're describing but I can't picture the front mod. Thanks!

[raygreenwood]

Ok....this is only a fraction of what would go into a document for the front end but its what I could get together for this on the fly.

This is going to be a bit long.

This is the subframe ends. in the front. I used a 3/4" holesaw to saw a hole though 50% of the welded in steel tube to make a keyhole shape. I used 1" steel conduit...split and them elongated on the sides...tack welded it in on both sides...then ground both sides flat. So make an elongated slot.

This after the welding

the other side....I also made a small steel plate to go around the tube I welded in just to add metal in...not sure if it needs it at all.

This is the right side captive nut slot in the body that the subframe bolts go into to allow the subframe to move. Noot that they move side to side

this is the rearward captive not that allows the subframe to move forward and back.

Left side captive nut and slot

This is the right hand side eye where the control arm pivot bolt is.

I marked the centerline and made sure that the slot scribe lines are parallel to the ground so that the control arm camber adjustment slides straight sideways.

I am using a spare pair of eccentric bolts from the rear end...so i am measuring the slot length and distance from the stop in the next picture....for what I will grind into the front subframe

the carbide grinding burrs I used in my cheap northern tool die grinder....

to do this....these are the slots

Then I mocked up where the fulcrum blocks are going to be in this series of photos.....

These are the blocks that the eccentric screw will bear against. I installed 6mm lock screws so once I adjust eccentric...i lock it so i dont have to use as much torque on the bolts

Measuring the control arm bushing bore

Oversized OD and undersized ID delrin tube from Mcmaster carr...about $18

Installed onto the original steel bushing removed from the original control arm bushing and then filed on the drill press to be .001" interference on the control arm bushing bore.

Delrin end flanges made from delrin plate and cut with hole saw

Bushings pressed in and filed flat

Subframe stripped and ready for epoxy

the fulcrum blocks welded in on each side of the eccentric slot

These slots are to use a pry bar to move the sub frame from side to side during alignment adjustment. Ray

[bradself]

Wow, great pics, thanks Ray! I had imagined enlarging the slots on the body for the captured nut, my minds eye had it backwards. Do you rely on torquing the bolt alone to keep the subframe from moving from an aligned position?

[raygreenwood]

Yes...torque on the bolts keep the subframe nicely anchored. The tubes through the subframe are substantial. ...and heavily welded....so that about 60 ft lbs is used to hold them in place.

I used a bi-metal hole saw to drill all the way through the subframe and basically split the tube that was welded In at the factory in half. I clamped the subframe to a workbench with a C clamp and used a corded drill with the hole saw after drilling a 1/4" pilot hole just next to the tube.
The heavy construction of the bolt hole tubes through the subframe are what makes just bolt torque enough to hold things still because it makes the subframe solid enough that it does not crush.

Others have drilled the whole tube out and had a piece of bar stock milled to have a slot through it....dopped it into the hole and welded both ends. Thats nice if you have the money for machine work and a welder with more than 140 amps.....but I also did not want to lose or disturb the very nice thick level top pads that fit against the body.

I still have a small amount of weld clearancing to do on the top of the subframe.....but its largely done.

I may add a small adjuster screw at the rearward end of the subframe to make it easier for the alignment guys to do fine adjustment. Ray

[bradself]

I'm not quite getting what the set screws in the fulcrum blocks actually bottom against, the sides of the bolt head?

No castle nut and cotter?

[raygreenwood]

[bradself]

Being lazy here, I think I bookmarked pics from someone's trailing arm rebuild but those are fab'd from urethane rather than glass filled delrin, correct? Do you do top hats, Ray, or similar to your control arm bushings? Just eyeballing the original bushings it looks like a new beefier inner sleeve might be needed to hold up under the 60 #s tightening torque
, the original looks like a big roll pin, actually.