1600 DP W/ all new parts, Pic heavy, please add input.

[modok]

CB makes a small merged header and matching muffler.

[BotanyBandit]

Enjoying this thread, learning a lot!

[stan_tichomirov]

[Googlestein]

Hey Modok or John,

My push rods and the valve spring shims are in the mail and should be here by friday. Durring the last week I cleaned, recleaned, and lightly oiled my pistons / jugs, and installed the rings.

I got thinking today, I can't finsh installing my heads / jugs untill I setup the valve spring shims. If I seal the jugs and then remove the heads will I compromise the jug to case seal, just seems wrong.

Will running the pistons with the rings on and NOTsealing the case cause any problems?

This way I can set the the springs and then pull the jugs out far enough to run a bead of sealer on the jug and be done. This way I don't need to reclean and oil the jugs.

Also when setting the shims, all I'm doing is using the valve train to open the vales to max lift. Measuring the springs compression, then adding shims untill I get to .070 - .100 FROM coil bind.

Can I stack shims if needed? Just asking, I have no clue how much usally gets shimed.

Sound good?

[modok]

Sounds OK!

The spring installed heights are all over the place from 1.400-1.600 so you could need no shims........ or three.
I like to grind a piece of welding rod to the desired installed height and put the heads together without springs then just use that as a feeler and see how many shims it will take on each one.

One time I concluded we needed a quarter inch if shims ..... but I re-thought it and used a bigger spring instead. Bigger is not always better but with a turbo involved I thought it might hold up to heat longer.

[Googlestein]

ok simple but important question, this weekend I had some time to mess around the shop.

I installed the heads with small shims to check things out. This way I figured I can check the coil bind by using the valve train like we talked about earlier. Then remove the entire setup and clean and be done. I like your idea Modok about making a "gauge" for the desired spring height, but I don't know where exactly is coil bind.

Is coil bind actually when ALL coils touch or just ANY coil touch? Right now I have the first 3 coils touching at max lift and a ton of room between the center 2. "Good old internet" says I must be able to use my feeler gauge between ALL coils... Is this even possible?

THIS IS NOT ME, JUST A INTERNET PIC

I would think this is coil bind, am I correct?

[Googlestein]

So after some messing around, I came to a spot that I felt was close... And then I sat back and WRONG!

So I shimmed out all the valves so at the biggest gap in the spring would fit .090 feeler gauge. As mentioned above this can't be right cause there is still room in the next two coils. So if coil bind really does occur when there is absolutely no more room to move, I'm still a mile out. The only way would be to max the spring out no matter what, before I install it in the engine. Otherwise I would be here for days trying to add shims and measuring every coil.

Case in point, I think I did it wrong lmao[/b]

Now it makes perfect sense Modok on your method. All I need now is a confirmation when coil bind is exactly.

Completely maxed out like in the pic???

Can I use the vise if I use flat jaws??

[modok]

Vice would work, ideally with plain jaws.
Drill press with bathroom scale= "poor mans spring tester"

Just need straight surfaces on either side so you can measure.

[Googlestein]

Ok so today I compressed the spring till it touched all coils lightly and this is .100 over how did it look? Do the numbers look close for a hd single spring. This would suck if I mess this up.

[modok]

you're a quick learner

[Googlestein]

What is the trick to pulling / stretching open push rod tubes? Just using your hands is a pain in the @$$ and using tools seems, brutal... Is there a easy cake walk way?

[[email protected]]

make sure they are squeaky clean. I grab them with clean hands; middle in one hand, end in the other. Wriggle and pull OUT. Then do the other end.

If they are oily (or dirty hands) I can't get enough tug on them. It doesn't take much. They'll re-compress when you torque the heads on.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

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[Googlestein]

ok sounds good I guess ill just man up and give them a tug. It's been a long time since I installed some so maybe getting older I gained some muscle LMAO.

Thanks Modok and John again for the help! You guys are great, and a valuable asset to the VW community!

[Danwvw]

I hold a tube with both hands and place both of my thumbs on a bellows and push then rotate the push rod tube and do it again. It's pretty easy to get them longer than you need. Lately I have been using these in case I want to go to 1.25 ratio rockers they won't hit the push rod: http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1567
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Googlestein]

ok so finally all springs are shimmed to perfection, and I've cleaned all the parts one last time ( 50 million times now and counting).

I found one error I missed earlier.

One head at full lift is @ .054 and .065 from the guide to retainer. Should I improve this distance while the thing is completely bare?

On few random posts I've found .050 is absolute minimum tolerance. How true is this?

OOh and most importantly I can just use the dremel and lower it right? Ill be nice no hacking.

[Googlestein]

All else fails READ YOUR CAM CARD!

Right from the card!

#3 Check the valve spring retainer to valve guide clearance at maximum lift. Remove material from the top,of valve guides to provide a minimum of .030" clearance.

DOOHHHH

[[email protected]]

we had a customer this week that tried to install his inner spring (from duals) ON the valve guide boss, not knowing they had to be machined for inner spring clearance. He couldn't figure out why he couldn't get the retainer/keepers on.

Assume nothing!
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net

[Googlestein]

I've never ran dual springs, but before I even ordered my heads I read enough posts to know that O boy... Some peoples children

So I've been busy the last few days with work, but here is where I am at now.

I did my "final" build for the long block.

Shimmed valve springs, quite easy once you get the hang of it.
Modified rockers ( ground off backside) soaked complete asm in oil for 24 hrs
Pulled, cleaned, and then sealed all jugs
Installed under jug tin
Installed pushrod tubes Seams up and stretched out
Installed prepped heads (ported, shimmed, polished, intake matched
Installed pushrods and rockers
Adjusted valves
Checked ALL springs for coil bind
Installed new VW cover bails and covers
Installed oil cooler

Last couple days I've been fitting my sheetmetal and getting it ready for paint. Almost done, it's been taking a while to get my fit as nice as I like it.

Besides all that I dug out my old 40 IDFs and started to prep them for the build.

I don't recall them being this dirty when I packed them up but WTF is this? What is with the seeping out of the paper gaskets? I drained them completely and set them in a box upright. They might of been this dirty when I stored them but ???

Thats above where all the fuel should be right?

Here are the gaskets I took out

And here are the NEW gaskets way better material, the lower in the pic.

Thanks once again Modok and John for the help in building my long block! You saved me tons of experience headaches and I'm grateful. I've learned so much over this build and can't wait to learn more. Speaking of learning more does anyone have any info on post speed or air velocity I would really love to learn about how heads , intakes, and speeds all come together.

[modok]

Further study? hmmm

There is a book called "four stroke performance tuning" by A.G. Bell, which I think is very relevant for four cylinder engines especially.
After that look into the works of Professor Gordon P Blair.

[Googlestein]

Well I ordered the first book, four stroke performance. It looks and sounds really interesting form all the reviews I have read. Just going to sit back and wait for the Amazon drones to drop it off......

Also The carbs came off a working 1600 that ran without any flat spots. I did think it was over jetted and running rich. I only say this do to horrid gas milage. No smoke, plugs looked good, and overall it ran solid. I have yet to rent / buy the AFR meter from ACN, so for now I'm just looking to get close for break in.

F11 Tubes
200 Airs
115 Mains
50 Idles
50 Pump jets
28 vents

Portland is about 500' above sea level
Last time I ran these I used 30 degrees full advance on a 009
Full Body bug


Does this sound about right or shall I order some different options?

Anyone have a clue why the carbs look like they have been leaking?