Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
More Than a Headlight Problem? *Resolved?*
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:03 am    Post subject: More Than a Headlight Problem? *Resolved?* Reply with quote

When I got my '65, two and a half years ago it had weak headlights so after quite some time, I replaced them with Sylvania H6024ST 65-watt high performance halogen sealed beams. They lasted 10 mos and blew out together. (I should mention here that this is a show car and the headlights only get used maybe a dozen times during the winter here in Florida)

I contacted Sylvania and they sent me a new pair, as they were under the one-year warranty. At the time they told me that if they didn't work for me, they had another model they'd send me. They did say that halogens have a short life, but not that short.

Well, they blew again. both together, I think when I hit the high beam switch. This time I'm over the warranty, but I plan on contacting them.

My question? Is there another factor that could be blowing these lights? The high beam switch, the relay? I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to electrics.

Is there maybe a better sealed beam headlamp you can recommend? (I don't want blue headlights.)
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!


Last edited by onetuza on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drscope
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
drscope is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 volt or has it been upgraded to 12 volt?

Dim lights are often a symptom of bad grounds. On a show car that might be as simple as paint on the grounding studs. On a "not a show car" that is often from dirt, rust or corrosion on the grounding studs.

Of course poor connections on the positive side of the circuit can also cause dim lights.

It's unusual that both times you mention both lights went at the same time. That's a little fishy and makes me question if you have some sort of voltage spike that may be overloading the bulbs.

Have you taken the bulbs out and used a couple of alligator clips to test them?

And when they blow are you loosing just the low beams or are you using the high beams as well?

Need a few more details!
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drscope wrote:
6 volt or has it been upgraded to 12 volt?

Dim lights are often a symptom of bad grounds. On a show car that might be as simple as paint on the grounding studs. On a "not a show car" that is often from dirt, rust or corrosion on the grounding studs.

Of course poor connections on the positive side of the circuit can also cause dim lights.

It's unusual that both times you mention both lights went at the same time. That's a little fishy and makes me question if you have some sort of voltage spike that may be overloading the bulbs.

Have you taken the bulbs out and used a couple of alligator clips to test them?

And when they blow are you loosing just the low beams or are you using the high beams as well?

Need a few more details!

Loosing both low & high.
When you say alligator clips, do you mean attach the light directly to the battery? If so, then no.

I pulled the dead lamps and hooked up the old ones I got with the car and they work, and they never blew, but I hear what you're saying.

Can the high beam switch or relay cause something like this? What could cause a voltage spike?

I'm pretty sure it was when I hit the high beam switch and I'm pretty sure the ground is OK since the halogens seemed way brighter than the originals.
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34012
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First check the wiring. Make sure the three wires are in the correct pin sockets. They actually can work with them wrong, but draw too much current or seek an alternate ground path.

Another possibility is that your dimmer foot switch is bad, perhaps shorting for a brief moment, or sending current to both high and low at the same time.

A VOM can check both these possibilities out in under an hour.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a side note, I'm thinking of switching to non-sealed beams so when one blows I don't have to pull the damn bucket apart.

Something like these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002M9QJM/ref=ox...PDKIKX0DER
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34012
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
On a side note, I'm thinking of switching to non-sealed beams so when one blows I don't have to pull the damn bucket apart.

Something like these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002M9QJM/ref=ox...PDKIKX0DER


Those work great. I've used them for about 30 years! Those are the E-code pattern, not the crappy DOT sealed beam type pattern. Easy to get the H4 bulbs still, too, at least in 12V.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fla2smoker
Samba Member


Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 574
Location: Parrish, Florida
fla2smoker is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
On a side note, I'm thinking of switching to non-sealed beams so when one blows I don't have to pull the damn bucket apart.

Something like these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002M9QJM/ref=ox...PDKIKX0DER


Bus Depot has a pretty good deal on a pair of Hella E-Code H4 headlights

http://www.busdepot.com/0301600118
_________________
View my 66 build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=507996
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drscope
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
drscope is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the time being I think you need to forget about replacing your headlights and figure out what the problem is! Switching out bulbs isn't going to make the problem go away.

Once you have it figured out and corrected, then go back to thinking about what bulbs to use.

Take your old bulb and look at it. There should be 3 connections on the back. One is ground, one is low beam and one is high beam. the top, or center pin is usually the ground.

use your alligator clips and test wires to your battery. Hook from that top/center connector to ground and then run a hot wire to the other connectors one at a time to see whats working.

To loose high and low on both bulbs at the same time is pretty fishy to me.

Are you running a generator or an alternator? And you didn't answer if you are still 6 volt or upgraded to 12.
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drscope wrote:
For the time being I think you need to forget about replacing your headlights and figure out what the problem is! Switching out bulbs isn't going to make the problem go away.

Once you have it figured out and corrected, then go back to thinking about what bulbs to use.

Take your old bulb and look at it. There should be 3 connections on the back. One is ground, one is low beam and one is high beam. the top, or center pin is usually the ground.

use your alligator clips and test wires to your battery. Hook from that top/center connector to ground and then run a hot wire to the other connectors one at a time to see whats working.

To loose high and low on both bulbs at the same time is pretty fishy to me.

Are you running a generator or an alternator? And you didn't answer if you are still 6 volt or upgraded to 12.


Thanks for the input.

12V with an alternator.

I've been reading various other auto forums and several have said that it's not uncommon and that when a lamp blows it can cause a power surge to the other one an blow it too.
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
fla2smoker
Samba Member


Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 574
Location: Parrish, Florida
fla2smoker is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the wiring using the diagram in the technical area.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_62.jpg

Trace the wires from the fuse block to both headlights. Check to make sure your fuses are rated properly as well. Sounds like the wiring is not correct to blow both lights at the same time and not the fuses.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
View my 66 build thread here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=507996
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
onetuza wrote:
On a side note, I'm thinking of switching to non-sealed beams so when one blows I don't have to pull the damn bucket apart.

Something like these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002M9QJM/ref=ox...PDKIKX0DER


Those work great. I've used them for about 30 years! Those are the E-code pattern, not the crappy DOT sealed beam type pattern. Easy to get the H4 bulbs still, too, at least in 12V.

Does it matter that they say they are flat?
Also they are apparently only legal for off-road use?
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hitest
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
hitest is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:

Another possibility is that your dimmer foot switch is bad, perhaps shorting for a brief moment, or sending current to both high and low at the same time.


This was my suspect from the start of this thread. Also, establish new grounds for both headlights.
_________________
EverettB wrote:

I wonder what the nut looks like.



'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181

FU#5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: More Than a Headlight Problem? Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
My question? Is there another factor that could be blowing these lights? The high beam switch, the relay? I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to electrics.


A bad ground or any other voltage drop through a poor connection, weak relay or such will restrict current flow and make the bulb glow dimmer and last longer.

Even if you did power both low and high beam filaments at one time, that should not make both of them blow, so not likely a bad dimmer switch.

High Voltage, as in more than what the bulb is tested to withstand, is what will shorten the life of the bulbs.

Ever notice how many new cars you see with a burned out headlight bulbs? It's because modern cars use 125-150 amp alternators running at a constant 14+ volts in order to provide the needed power for all the electronics and engine management systems.

Keep in mind most all incandescent light bubs are similar whether regular or halogen, as all have a filament of tungsten wire that glows red hot and bright when energized. The fact that the wire is sealed in a vacuum and the different gases surrounding it are what protect the wire from instantly vaporizing/burning out.

Ever notice even WalMart sells head light bulbs? They are a fast mover in the modern world. The so called "Long Life" bulbs that cost more are actually rated for about 15 volts, and are made with a heavier filament wire to give them more durability.

So, do you have a high output alternator on the engine? What is your battery voltage when the car is running?
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34012
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
Does it matter that they say they are flat?
Also they are apparently only legal for off-road use?


Ignore both "warnings." I say. They are of a design that has been legal on new cars for over 20 years, using the very same bulbs and light patterns. Strictly speaking, these are not legal as a retrofit, but simple logic tells you if you have the same type lights as 80% of the cars on the road, you will not be cited or even noticed. Just aim them carefully-- check the European owners manuals for the pattern directions (though you use the regular USA-manual screw/adjuster locations). "Flat" just means the front glass is nearly flat, not circular like sealed beams. It's just style thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One important thing I forgot to mention is that when I originally swapped out the standard lamps for the Sylvania H6024ST 65-watt high performance halogen sealed beams, the low beams were marginally better, but the high beams were exceptional. Would this indicate something wrong with the high/low switch or relay with respect to the low beams?
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34012
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

onetuza wrote:
One important thing I forgot to mention is that when I originally swapped out the standard lamps for the Sylvania H6024ST 65-watt high performance halogen sealed beams, the low beams were marginally better, but the high beams were exceptional. Would this indicate something wrong with the high/low switch or relay with respect to the low beams?


Maybe. No substitute for a through test with a VOM to check for continuity, shorts, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
61SNRF
Samba Member


Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
61SNRF is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: More Than a Headlight Problem? Reply with quote

61SNRF wrote:
onetuza wrote:
My question? Is there another factor that could be blowing these lights? The high beam switch, the relay? I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to electrics.


High Voltage, as in more than what the bulb is tested to withstand, is what will shorten the life of the bulbs.


Hear me now and believe me later Rolling Eyes Smile
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
drscope
Samba Member


Joined: February 19, 2007
Posts: 15273
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
drscope is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

65 converted to 12 volt with an alternator and blowing all 4 filaments in the headlight bulbs.

Did you by chance order your headlight bulbs by year and not by voltage?
_________________
Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drscope wrote:
65 converted to 12 volt with an alternator and blowing all 4 filaments in the headlight bulbs.

Did you by chance order your headlight bulbs by year and not by voltage?

These are them, doesn't say.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000COCTWG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
onetuza
Samba Member


Joined: June 20, 2012
Posts: 579
Location: Sebastian, FL
onetuza is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just found this thread which may be very helpful, especially since my halogen low beams seemed dull to me:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=608076
_________________
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather . . . .
Not screaming, like the other passengers in his car!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.