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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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 Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: |
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To the OP,
brake bleeder valves
wheel cylinders
bleeder cocks
These are all the same thing. Well, I guess you could say that the bleed nipples could be changed without changing the entire wheel cylinder but if the nipples are bad, I'll bet the rest should be changed out too. You can buy rebuild kits for roughly $5. There's not too much to doing the job really.
Bleeder
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...%20Bleeder
Bleeder cap
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...eder%20Cap
Wheel cylinder
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...20Cylinder
Rebuild kit
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...pair%20Kit
MC Grommet
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...%20Grommet
Master cylinder
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=...20Cylinder
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madmike
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Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5292
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:04 am Post subject: |
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Ya Kev,Being a re-tired AMA Pro-National mechanic I Know they take the Mush out of the Pedal 
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shawnljphillips
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| front wheels are off, new lines, pads, bleeder valves on order. I removed the calipers as they were stuck, could not rotate rotor, no backing plates for the pads?? Looks like a rebuild is in order for the calipers. Any advice |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| front wheels are off, new lines, pads, bleeder valves on order. I removed the calipers as they were stuck, could not rotate rotor, no backing plates for the pads?? Looks like a rebuild is in order for the calipers. Any advice |
About halfway down the first page, I showed how I rebuilt my seized front calipers:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525557&highlight= |
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shawnljphillips
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: thanks |
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| Wastedyouth, awesome thanks, that's exactly what I needed. Now to get some of those backing plates and get on it, did you do a similar thread with your rear brakes as I imagine I will be attacking those next |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| madmike wrote: |
I'm going D.O.T. Braided Stainless steel  from the  empi catalog part #'s
2ea. 98-6715-B fronts M/F 440mm long
1ea. 98-6714-B rear m/f 240mm long
1 ea. 98-6716-B F/F 270mm long
hope this helps,sure does on my other VW's!!!!!!!,, almost 'Power' Brakes!!!
Madmike |
I was just going to post a question about braided lines. I ride a motorcycle every day for my daily commuter. Everyone in the MC industry knows if you want the best brake response, you go steel braided. I was going to ask the same question for the Bus. I have a 68 with crappy arse brakes. Some may have seen other posts about a Disc conversion that I am thinking of doing, but before I do that, I am going to 'rebuild' my drum brakes to see how good they CAN be. I thought Steel Braided would be the way to go. Thanks for that info. I am going to check them out. |
Many many threads and arguments about the teflon lined steel braided hoses.
A couple of notes from personal experience.
I use teflon/stainless braided lines on my VW 412. Wouldn't have it any other way. Fantastic mod.
A couple things to be wary of though:
1. Teflon has very poor impact resistance. If you ever kink the hose or marginally over twist it past its bend radius... you WILL crack the inner lining and sooner or later it will fail.
2. To use the Teflon stainless hoses with confidence....buy only the best brands you can. At this point there are "0" DOT certified Teflon stainless hoses available. Do not be fooled by terminology. Most list that they are DOT COMPLIANT.....not the same thing as certified. It means they ascribe to DOT regulations and test to meet or exceed DOT specifications and methods.....but does not mean that the DOT put their stamp of approval on the parts.
This does not mean they are bad. The DOT is smart because they know the safety of these hoses is directly related to installation practices and thorough and regular, proper maintenance.
3. The two best brands out there by reputation and by looking at build quality are Aeroquip and Earles.
4. Before you start with these, make sure that when they are shipped to you they are in a proper package...a blisterpack card is best, in a properly packed box is second. If there is any chance these hoses got crimped by a careless employee...they are now dangerous junk.
Inspect each hose in good light carefully for any evidence in the stainless braiding of kinks
5. Make sure you use only a hose with the EXACT correct length made for your application with correct notches for hose retaining clips and body fittings.
These hoses MUST be held properly in the factory hose loops with tension clips to make sure they do not excessively move or vibrate.
Buy and use proper flare wrenches.
6. Before you start installing them, locate or make a hole in the chassis to hang your calipers from. Use the old hose to make sure that when the caliper is hung connected to the hose...it does not cause the hose to be tight putting strain on the braided hose near the steel cuffs on the hex at each end,
You will generally have to create a small metal hook to hold the calipers up safely without causing strain on the hose. that hook is now a tool and goes in your toolbox. You will need it anytime the caliper comes off to service rotor or wheel bearings and you dont plan to disconnect the hose.
These hoses work well, are safe and last a long time and are a great improvement in pedal and brake performance......but are only safe if you take careful precautions in their handling. Ray |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: thanks |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| Wastedyouth, awesome thanks, that's exactly what I needed. Now to get some of those backing plates and get on it, did you do a similar thread with your rear brakes as I imagine I will be attacking those next |
No, I didn't. At the time, I saw that there were plenty of threads on that, and when I started mine, I dug deeper and went in and removed, cleaned and inspected the rear wheel bearings as well as the rear brakes and all four CV joints as one large project. Took a lot of pictures, but never made a thread contribution in a step by step fashion. |
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shawnljphillips
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: rotors |
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| Just had rotors turned at the brake shop, unfortunately now I have rotors that are about 10mm, where the manual states they should be not less than 11mm. Brake shop guys say this is no problem?? Thoughts. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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1 mm isn't much as far as rotors go, but technically he should have refused to turn them beyond condemning limits. I would probably run them, but obviously budget for new rotors.
What about the drums? |
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shawnljphillips
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| haven't got to the drums yet, still trying to find the backing plate shims |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50350
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: rotors |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| Just had rotors turned at the brake shop, unfortunately now I have rotors that are about 10mm, where the manual states they should be not less than 11mm. Brake shop guys say this is no problem?? Thoughts. |
Not the best idea, but many people have run this way. Watch your pads for wear though as you don't want to let them wear quite as far down before deciding its time to do further brake work. |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| ... the manual states they should be not less than 11 mm ... |
Actually, the Bentley manual sez the minimum disk thickness after machining is 12 mm, and the scrap-it thickness is 11.5 mm.
But hey, what did VW know about such things?
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| ... the manual states they should be not less than 11 mm ... |
Actually, the Bentley manual sez the minimum disk thickness after machining is 12 mm, and the scrap-it thickness is 11.5 mm.
But hey, what did VW know about such things? |
I think they know that 2 mm off tolerance means one day your caliper piston pops past the seal and you have catastrophic brake failure, probably not when you are parking.
...but you knew that already...
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shawnljphillips
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: rotors |
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should have clarified, wasn't the Bentley manual at the brake shop. the guy looked up tolerance in a manual they had, not Bentley and it stated that the discard thickness was 11 mm.
Looks like I'm probably best to go with new rotors, not really something I want to take a chance on. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: rotors |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| Looks like I'm probably best to go with new rotors, not really something I want to take a chance on. |
I have my doubts that thin rotors by one or two mm would allow disc brake pistons to pop out, as the travel I experienced when I rebuilt my calipers seems to preclude this problem. But I will certainly go with overheated rotors cracking or warping because they are too thin, and the thinner they get, the faster they could overheat during prolonged braking.
Best course of action is to replace thin or nearly condemned rotors. Keep in mind these don't feature the cooling channel of the modern double faced rotor found today. Ours are single disc, and would seem to have less surface area to dissipate heat.
When I did mine, they were already turned at least once before I got them. Turning them again would have put them beyond the limit. I got a nice set through Rock Auto. Turns out they were from the same supplier as the rotors I could have bought locally, and I didn't find any high end, great quality rotors anywhere anyway. I was advised by my VW supplier who sold my drums that it is important to follow the torque specs for the wheel lugs on the rotors, and avoid the impact wrench. The thought there was by following this, they were less apt to warp. Apparently, this had been a problem. Can't say I had heard of that, nor have I experienced it. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| ... still trying to find the backing plate shims |
Good luck with that, by the way. |
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GMATech
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2012
Posts: 220
Location: South East Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: rotors |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
| follow the torque specs for the wheel lugs on the rotors, and avoid the impact wrench. The thought there was by following this, they were less apt to warp. Apparently, this had been a problem. Can't say I had heard of that, nor have I experienced it. |
This is a good "by the book" rule of thumb, but only happens to certain cars. 99-05 GM N body cars are one of them that I can think of off the top of my head. Fire on the wheels with a gun, even with a torque stick, and soon the front brakes will be pulsating horrible.
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Jjrady
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: El Segundo, CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding (absolutely no fluid came out) |
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| shawnljphillips wrote: |
| So now Im onto the brake system on my 1974 bus, it' been sitting for a long time. brake pedal was very stiff and very little braking action. Tried bleeding the front brakes, pressure bleeding, absolutely no fluid came out. Can hear a suctioning sound from the master cylinder, no signs of any fluid. |
Hey there shawnljphillips
Any news on this problem. Same thing happened to me yesterday. Replaced rear cylinders, pads, flex lines all around (braided stainless). Bought motive blender. Followed instructions, began bleeding, no fluid out of front calipers. Nothing.
I should add that brakes worked BEAUTIFULLY before I had to go F@%King the system.
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding (absolutely no fluid came out) |
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| Jjrady wrote: |
Replaced rear cylinders, pads, flex lines all around (braided stainless). Bought motive blender. Followed instructions, began bleeding, no fluid out of front calipers. Nothing.
I should add that brakes worked BEAUTIFULLY before I had to go F@%King the system. |
Bleed the master cylinder.
Pull the bleeder valves and clean them. They may have crap in them.
Apply the brake pedal while the Motive is under pressure.
Good Luck
Tcash |
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Jjrady
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2013
Posts: 16
Location: El Segundo, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Brake bleeding (absolutely no fluid came out) |
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| Tcash wrote: |
Bleed the master cylinder.
Pull the bleeder valves and clean them. They may have crap in them.
Apply the brake pedal while the Motive is under pressure.
Good Luck
Tcash |
Thanks for the tips Tcash
Do I have to remove the MC to bleed it? Can I just pull the four lines going into it and hit the brake pedal SLOWLY and a little? Or do I need to follow Bently bench bleed procedure?
Thanks
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