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vweater1
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Joined: January 08, 2004
Posts: 346
Location: California
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: Dropping Engine |
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| Next week by Friday I will be dropping the engine out of my 71 squareback, But I don't know where to start I will be rebuilding for my first time a "VW". I don't know how difficult it is to drop or rebuild these type of engines, but damn it I'm going to try my hardest. Does anyone know where to get a Bentley Manual so I can get started? I need to do this myself so I can save a little $$ to get more stuff done to my ride. Fix suspension, need rear fender beading, windsheild and seal, and three rear window seals. That should keep me real busy. |
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 30754
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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nik
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Joined: February 13, 2003
Posts: 846
Location: 1 block away
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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I recommend putting a 2x6 bock underneath the engine(on top of the stand) when dropping the engine and rasing back in so that you do not crush or damage the oil strain plate.
nik
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toumadrivesa66
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Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 223
Location: Uganda
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm buff as hell. I don't even use tools. I started twisting the bolts off by hand because I couldn't figure out the right size. Then one handed I lowered the engine to the ground................Sorry I felt like telling an outrages lie.
vweater1 I'm glad your trying this yourself, I respect that. Like everett says watch ebay. You'll find all kinds of nifty vw things. Books engine start stands yadayadayada.
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"Ummm, yeah my car would run a lot better if I put the motor back in" |
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TheDDB
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Joined: April 08, 2003
Posts: 752
Location: Type 3 Central - Portland OR -
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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One quick note for all IRS cars with out motors...
If you remove the motor you want to have a jack stand to help support the tranny..other wise it will hang down and put its weight on the CV's.
No need to stress them if ya dont need to 
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Home of the only bolt on type 3 air ride kit
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Its a type 3 thing, so you might not understand
Yes I Walk the Walk |
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toumadrivesa66
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Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 223
Location: Uganda
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:38 am Post subject: |
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T3junkie my 69 fastback is IRS but has no cross member or rear engine mount. It does have a wishbone tranny mount wich I though was only swing. I think it's called wishbone. But my motor just bolts to the tranny and has no other mounts bolted to it. Thats how I got the car two years ago and it's been the same ever sence. Did someone add that wishbone?
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"Ummm, yeah my car would run a lot better if I put the motor back in" |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 5038
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| toumadrivesa66 wrote: | | T3junkie my 69 fastback is IRS but has no cross member or rear engine mount. It does have a wishbone tranny mount wich I though was only swing. I think it's called wishbone. But my motor just bolts to the tranny and has no other mounts bolted to it. Thats how I got the car two years ago and it's been the same ever sence. Did someone add that wishbone? |
Sounds like some one did an IRS conversion to a swing axle rear subframe or added the wish bones under the trans.
Another note to some of the IRS people here, if you have an AT car, remove the torque converter bolts and try to seperate the converter from the flex plate before removing the engine. If you don't do this, you take a chance on pulling the torque converter out of the trans and possibly bending its input shaft when you run out of room while removing the engine. Just a thought from an AT owner.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working |
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TheDDB
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Joined: April 08, 2003
Posts: 752
Location: Type 3 Central - Portland OR -
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| toumadrivesa66 wrote: | | my 69 fastback is IRS but has no cross member or rear engine mount. It does have a wishbone tranny mount wich I though was only swing. ? |
Yep- sounds like someone added the swing rearend to your car..
Maybe the motor/tranny were swapped out as a unit from a swing axle car.
Does the car have the rear motor mounts for the hanger bar still?
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Martin Magnia
Home of the only bolt on type 3 air ride kit
http://www.theDDB.com
Its a type 3 thing, so you might not understand
Yes I Walk the Walk |
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toumadrivesa66
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Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 223
Location: Uganda
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Ok I'm not sure the terms but it doesn't have the rear mount that my 66 fastback has. The one right in the middle of the engine compartment but it does have a place for mounting the engine crossmember piece. The two mounts on each side of the engine compartment. It is a type one case if that makes any difference at all. Can I get a cross member and mount that too the type 1 case? Not really fond of the idea of the motor just dangling off the tranny. I know it's probably pretty strong and strong enough but it still sits in the back of my mind.
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"Ummm, yeah my car would run a lot better if I put the motor back in" |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 5038
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| toumadrivesa66 wrote: | | Ok I'm not sure the terms but it doesn't have the rear mount that my 66 fastback has. The one right in the middle of the engine compartment but it does have a place for mounting the engine crossmember piece. The two mounts on each side of the engine compartment. It is a type one case if that makes any difference at all. Can I get a cross member and mount that too the type 1 case? Not really fond of the idea of the motor just dangling off the tranny. I know it's probably pretty strong and strong enough but it still sits in the back of my mind. |
Ok, lets first get you up on the terms. IRS uses 4 CV joints (2 per side), and swing axle has 2 boots (1per side) near the trans. The IRS uses a lower control arm that bolts to a shorter spring plate and allows a controlled up & down movement. Also most type3 IRS rear subs don't have anything under the trans, as it was designed to accomidate the wider AT transmission. The swing axle doesn't use the control arm, and the trans mounts to the wishbone located under the trans. There are 2 ways to do the conversion; 1) add the forks to an IRS subframe, 2) add the control arm mounts to a swing subframe and then add the IRS spring plates and control arms.
The only way to mount the rear cross bar engine hanger is to bolt it onto the lugs of the case. Does your engine case hase these lugs for the hanger to bolt on? If not, then you now know why someone added the forks under your trans.  You'll need a different case if you don't already have the lugs. You can use a universal case (mag or alum)or you can try and find a good type3 case. Also some 68 to 71 bus cases can be used if you can find a good one that hasn't been overheated or beaten to death (bearing saddles). I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working |
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toumadrivesa66
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Joined: December 25, 2003
Posts: 223
Location: Uganda
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well bob I know why they added the forks. It was always IRS but they added the forks to accomodate the type one case. No lugs for the rear cross bar. Thanks.
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"Ummm, yeah my car would run a lot better if I put the motor back in" |
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ctobio
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Joined: January 02, 2004
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: | | Another note to some of the IRS people here, if you have an AT car, remove the torque converter bolts and try to seperate the converter from the flex plate before removing the engine. If you don't do this, you take a chance on pulling the torque converter out of the trans and possibly bending its input shaft when you run out of room while removing the engine. Just a thought from an AT owner. |
Bob- back in the day when I had my Fasty, I removed the three bolts to the flex plate and I believe I tied wire around the bell-housing (in a cross pattern using the bolt holes from the engine) to keep the torque converter from falling out after I pulled the engine. Dropping out the torque converter could produce a mess at best, mechanical damage at worst.
One thing, and maybe you or anyone else with an auto T3 could shed some light- those three bolts that hold the flex plate to the torque converter were a total bee-yatch to get in (15mm long, approx, and maybe 20mm of space to work them in.) It took my dad and I nearly an entire day of swearing like Tourettes Syndrome sufferers to get these SOBs in.
So, is there a trick, or what?
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Current cars:
'03 VW Passat Variant GLX 2.8 l V6 5MT | Blue Anthracite/Gray Leather | ESP (Mine!)
'73 VW Type III Fastback (second one)
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Past 'Dubs:
'73 VW Type III Fastback (RIP) |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 5038
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Well, normally I get the engine and trans bolted together, then check to see if I can still spin the torque converter (TC). If I can't, Then I need to find out why (something is bound up), and I'll unbolt the engine & trans again, and check for TC movement. I've found that the TC needs to be able to turn, in order for proper operation. I've also found some TC noses have a little lip (burr) or some rust that seems to cause the binding problem. Once I've achieved this (TC spins when together), I'll start all 3 bolts but leaving them loose until I have them all in, before I remove them again, and blue loctite them in for the last time. I've found that if I put them in one at a time and tighten them up, I can get 2 to go but the 3rd won't. I've also taken a can of spray paint, and marked the TC and the flex plate so I can get them back in their original balanced position. Other than those items mentioned above, I haven't really found any other tricks.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working |
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1969 squareback
Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2004
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Dropping Engine |
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| vweater1 wrote: | | Next week by Friday I will be dropping the engine out of my 71 squareback, But I don't know where to start I will be rebuilding for my first time a "VW". I don't know how difficult it is to drop or rebuild these type of engines, but damn it I'm going to try my hardest. Does anyone know where to get a Bentley Manual so I can get started? I need to do this myself so I can save a little $$ to get more stuff done to my ride. Fix suspension, need rear fender beading, windsheild and seal, and three rear window seals. That should keep me real busy. |
If you haven't started already well then here are some things you will want to do.
1. On your engine their are 4 bolt that connect it to the tranny, if you remove them make sure that something (a jack/or bungie cords) is supporting it. I will drop after the engine is removed.
2. You will have to diconnect the wires (3) from the generator, your accelerator cable and fuel line. Make sure to plug the fuel line you can use a bolt that fits.
3. Your engine is held up by 4 bolt 2 on each side (you should see them right behind your rear wheels, also if you take the engine lid off they will be on both sides (left, and right) coming downward from the top. Oh, don't forget to use another jack to hold the engine up when removing the bolt and to lower it.
The removal of the engine is a rather simple job so good luck.
I have just removed the engine and transmission to do a conversion on my tranny (auto to stick). [/quote] |
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renosquareback
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Joined: February 03, 2004
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone here is correct. Just make shure to make a map of the connections or use a camera and take photos of the engine while you are disconnecting everything. Always try and have someone there to help. I don't care what any one says these motors are still heavy  ! As far as the books.
www.cip1.com
They have the book new if you can't find one.
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73squared
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9
Location: canada
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| Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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check out CiP1.com they have bently's for type 3's
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vwcrazybus
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Joined: June 26, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Organization is KEY! Label and mark EVERYTHING, even the obvious. Zip lock baggies and a black sharpie were my best friends. The idiot guide is a great companion to the Bentley. Helps with order of progression, especially when reassembling. Have fun! |
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