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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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notchback: $500 for the blue late model pickup w/Title. The FI engine & 4 speed are there, but it had an engine fire!
PlugUgly: The 3 speed automatic transmission w/FI engine is what you want in a Type 3.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
notchback: $500 for the blue late model pickup w/Title. The FI engine & 4 speed are there, but it had an engine fire!
PlugUgly: The 3 speed automatic transmission w/FI engine is what you want in a Type 3.
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thats out of a late model right? |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the automatic transmissions are all IRS. The IRS subframe w/brakes will bolt into an early swing axle Type 3 though.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Yes, the automatic transmissions are all IRS. The IRS subframe w/brakes will bolt into an early swing axle Type 3 though. |
ok, cool. they seem to be kinda difficult to find.
and any advice on modding a 1600? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| P!ugUg!y wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Yes, the automatic transmissions are all IRS. The IRS subframe w/brakes will bolt into an early swing axle Type 3 though. |
ok, cool. they seem to be kinda difficult to find.
and any advice on modding a 1600? |
The IRS sub frame from 69 thru 73 bolts right in. You'll have to fabricate some sort of engine hanger though, as there's no forks on AT cars. The reason for removing the forks on IRS subframes, was due to the AT being as wide as it is, it wouldn't fit the forks. And VW decided to just make 1 subframe fit both transmissions, by going with the IRS set up.
As for doing something to get a little more oomph out of the 1600, there are cam swaps, and upping the compression. Other than that, not much. However, you could build a larger T-3 engine (it shares ALL of the internal parts of a t-1 engine). This means you can go with anything from a 1776 (largest size for the stock FI system), all the way up to a 2332. It just costs money is all. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| P!ugUg!y wrote: |
| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| Yes, the automatic transmissions are all IRS. The IRS subframe w/brakes will bolt into an early swing axle Type 3 though. |
ok, cool. they seem to be kinda difficult to find.
and any advice on modding a 1600? |
The IRS sub frame from 69 thru 73 bolts right in. You'll have to fabricate some sort of engine hanger though, as there's no forks on AT cars. The reason for removing the forks on IRS subframes, was due to the AT being as wide as it is, it wouldn't fit the forks. And VW decided to just make 1 subframe fit both transmissions, by going with the IRS set up.
As for doing something to get a little more oomph out of the 1600, there are cam swaps, and upping the compression. Other than that, not much. However, you could build a larger T-3 engine (it shares ALL of the internal parts of a t-1 engine). This means you can go with anything from a 1776 (largest size for the stock FI system), all the way up to a 2332. It just costs money is all. |
that is exactly what i was trying to determine! thank you. so when im looking for engine rebuild parts i should be shopping for t1 parts to up the cc's? any links to a build thread on something like this? |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
notchback: $500 for the blue late model pickup w/Title. The FI engine & 4 speed are there, but it had an engine fire!
PlugUgly: The 3 speed automatic transmission w/FI engine is what you want in a Type 3.
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Thanks Mike , I'm thinking about the next project and an air conditioned ;automatic modern truck might look good in purple and silver 
Now I have to start checking out prices on air conditioned automatic squarebacks and sawsall blades 
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery
Last edited by grandpa pete on Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Suesanctuary
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2007
Posts: 842
Location: Wishing we were still chest deep in Vw Parts at the Wolfe Estate.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| P!ugUg!y wrote: |
that is exactly what i was trying to determine! thank you. so when im looking for engine rebuild parts i should be shopping for t1 parts to up the cc's? any links to a build thread on something like this? |
Yes. The type 3 shares all of it's internal parts with a type 1 engine. The big differences between the 2 are; distributor drive shaft is rotated 60* to clear the vac advance can (fan shroud is in the way), the cooling fan mounted to the crank, the "dog house" oil cooler laid on it's side, and the extra hole in the case for oil fill/dipstick tube, along with bosses for the IRS engine hanger bar. Most of the "universal" cases have these provisions incorporated into them, because the case can be used in a bus (later buses have an engine hanger bar), bug, or type 3.
Keep in mind that the type 3 head normally doesn't have the step in it like a bug or bus head has. This is because the type 3 engine had slightly more compression, versus those 2. The type 3 engine can use the stepped head though, but it does cost you a few points on the compression ratio.
As for a build thread on a t-1/t-3 engine, just look in the engine building forum, as there are plenty of engine builds there. If you do a search of this forum though, you'll find that Mark (W1K1) has some pics of his 1904, along with the "Kendall Fastback" having an engine build, and JSMSkater has 1 as well. I'm sure there are a couple more, but those are the ones I can think of right off hand.
I hope this helps.
P.S. This is Bob, I'm just logged in on my wife's side of the Samba.
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Sue
70 Fastback-AT w/ pop-outs
Did you know:
New York was the first state to require license plates, back in 1901. In those days, you had to make your own. Sears even sold Kits! Massachusetts was the first state to issue them in 1903.
Source: Automobile Magazine, Nov. 2006 |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| well im thinking a lower compression ratio might not be too bad, cause i would really like to put a turbo on there anyways. but thank you for all that info, i'll do some digging around today and look into some of that. |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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finally got a chance to get back into this thing. pulled the motor out real quick. we will be bench testing the compression and cleaning it up a bit to determine if i want to keep it stock, go bigger or buy new. heres a few quick snapshots of the progress.
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Southern California, contact me for your used water cooled parts needs. oem and aftermarket. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| P!ugUg!y wrote: |
finally got a chance to get back into this thing. pulled the motor out real quick. we will be bench testing the compression and cleaning it up a bit to determine if i want to keep it stock, go bigger or buy new. heres a few quick snapshots of the progress.
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Just so you know, the rear of your "truck" has been converted to IRS. You can tell by the 4 CV joints on the drive axles.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:37 am Post subject: |
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im actually thinking this underwent a swap at some point. there was a new clutch and lightened flywheel on the motor as well. either that or the pan is a 67 and the rest is all 68 for the most part. true to form for a project called the Clustertruck.
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Southern California, contact me for your used water cooled parts needs. oem and aftermarket. |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:20 am Post subject: |
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so it looks like i'll be in the market for a new(ish) motor most likely. best case scenario i can salvage the case. it seems a bearing was spun and the right side head was fried pretty good. the heads were gonna be swapped for dual port anyways, so im not too distraught.
any suggestions? this is a budget build to some extent, so dropping 5 grand on a turnkey is out of the question at least for the time being.
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Southern California, contact me for your used water cooled parts needs. oem and aftermarket. |
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Mexicant
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Time for a type 4 swap  |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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the case seems to be salvagable so im most likely going to rebuild with a stroker kit. it boils down to spend the money all at once (which is a little trickier for me right now) or spend it a little slower over time. to keep things pretty balanced budgetwise im gonna have to go with the slower over time spending option.
so ive heard 1776 and 1915 is ok but to avoid 1835? is this true?
my major expenses will be the rebuild kit, dual port heads and carbs as far as i can figure. anything i need to know or am not thinking about?
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Southern California, contact me for your used water cooled parts needs. oem and aftermarket. |
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Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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The majority of people having issues with the 1835 is that the older cylinders have thin walls, so a heavier vehicle has issues cooling. I've found that if you get the newer ones is not so bad. Do a stroker with say a 76mm crank and 90.5 thick walls and you'll love it.
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It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
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P!ugUg!y
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2015
Posts: 36
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'll start looking into that combo, thanks for the help!
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Southern California, contact me for your used water cooled parts needs. oem and aftermarket. |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7551
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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I would do a decent stockish rebuild to get the hang of this and work out the bugs and finish the car.
If you really like driving the car once it's done, and want more power, then start working on building up a hotter motor you can transfer all of your externals to.
Looks like you have your hands full already.
Building hot motors is a whole other book,
And the first chapter is "build a stock motor first".
There's enough of these projects unfinished as it is.
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Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
I would do a decent stockish rebuild to get the hang of this and work out the bugs and finish the car.
If you really like driving the car once it's done, and want more power, then start working on building up a hotter motor you can transfer all of your externals to.
Looks like you have your hands full already.
Building hot motors is a whole other book,
And the first chapter is "build a stock motor first".
There's enough of these projects unfinished as it is. |
X2
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Do the 003 automatic transmission that you really want & a stock engine now.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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