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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's April Fools day, and it looks like I'm the fool!! I get the noob award today. I used my torquemeister and a calibrated in-lb torque wrench to tighten up the new gland nut.. I came back to it and couldn't remember what I had set the torque to, then I panicked and thought I'd set it too low.. so anyway, I set a different wrench to 250 FT-LBs, put it on the torque multiplier, and torqued away until... the nut... just... snapped. Then I realized the equivalent torque is molded in to the side of the tool.. doing the math, I would have applied over 2,000 foot pounds if the nut had not snapped.
anyway.. cam break in tomorrow, hoping and praying it all goes well now that I replaced the gland nut.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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After a handful of other noob mistakes - wrong (short) fuel pump rod, fuel lines reversed on pump, etc etc etc, I finally got everything set and fired the engine up for cam break in this morning. CB/Eagle recommends at least 15 minutes above 2500RPM so I gave it a solid 20 minutes at 2500RPM or more..
of course, the pushrod tubes leaked, just like I knew they would. Only three leaked, where the two halves slide together.
I'm going to pull the pushrods and check rocker side clearance, fix the pushrod tube oil leaks, swap in the alternator and Pierburg fuel pump, re-check head nut torque, and hang the engine in the bus with a pair of new W.W. engine mounts.
Had a really hard time getting the engine to turn over with the bellhousing and starter.. I decided the starter was probably going bad so I grabbed the starter out of the bus, and saw right away that the true bus starter was significantly bigger than the one I had mounted to the bellhousing. I guess it was a bug starter. It definitely moved a lot faster!
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Robert in Memphis
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Do not run it without the fresh air tubes from shroud to HEs, you are loosing way too much cooling air doing that.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: Update on this engine build |
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Passed my 500-mile break in point a few days ago and everything is running great with only minor issues!
I hated to do it, but I only had the EMPI 34 pict-3 and the 009 ready to go when I finished building the engine, so they have been on there for the last few months.
So.. I'm planning an engine pull in the next few weeks and I have a laundry list for it!
Planning to take off the generator and put the rebuilt AL78 in. My generator bearings are starting to hum, and I'd prefer to have full voltage at idle! Idle voltage FTW!
Finished working on my H30/31 carb - I can't wait to get the EMPI POS off the top of my engine. The choke shaft is so tight that I can't get the choke to work at all... It's either on or off, so I set it to OFF and left it. It idles like a bag of buttholes right now (in the heat of summer) for the first five minutes, so there's no way I can leave it like that when the temps start to drop.
Since the H30/31 produces the vacuum I need to run my 113-905-205T SVA distributor, I'm planning to install that distributor. The 009 runs "ok" right now, but I don't care for it.
Also... I ran into a bunch of fuel pump issues. I can't blame Wolfsburg West yet since I haven't opened my pump back up to verify the failure, but the rebuilt Pierburg pump absolutely took a hot crap on the first test drive. I ultimately ended up having to put the generic alternator-style pump back in just to get home. Even then, I had to rob parts off another pump, after the pin walked out during a test drive... it ultimately bent and cracked the pump lever.
This past week I had some other issues... It was a hot 95F day here in Memphis and I'd just made a 17-mile interstate trip running 65-70MPH. After heat-soaking for an hour while I ate, the engine started surging on the return trip down the interstate. When I pulled over both times the issue disappeared, so after posting a thread looking for pointers, I'm thinking either vapor lock, or the fuel pump stand needs some more work to keep it from binding up on the push rod.
I'm fairly satisfied with the build and its performance so far.. Thanks to all of y'all on here who helped with ideas, suggestions, critique and advice to get this thing done!
I can't wait to build another engine!
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Robert in Memphis
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Great to hear! Not that we like most any of the EMPI made stuff today, but you could remove the choke shaft and use a little honing grit to polish the bore open a tad so the electric choke will work properly.
Get some hose clamps on the tops and bottoms of the fresh air tubes. If one blows off you can fry a head or the engine....
Get the stock metal fuel line in there and the left side of shroud holder for it to help reduce vapor lock. Use the proper stock grommet or a piece of fuel line slit down the side and clamped on the metal fuel line to keep front tin from cutting the metal line.
Did you change to the shorter fuel pump push rod when you switched to the shorter alt fuel pump?
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
...the stock metal fuel line in there and the left side of shroud holder for it to help reduce vapor lock...proper stock grommet...to keep front tin from cutting the metal line...
Did you change to the shorter fuel pump push rod when you switched to the shorter alt fuel pump? |
I just found out a few days ago I had my metal fuel line installed wrong.. it's over the transmission, connecting the fuel tank to the engine. Oops! 
I've got a WW grommet installed, it's hard to see in the pic..
The gen-length fuel pump pushrod is in there... FYI the alternator-length rod will bend the pump lever if you run it with a generator-style pump 
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Robert in Memphis
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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By the way thanks for the idea to clean up the choke shaft fit... it finally idles on its own at first start up.
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Robert in Memphis
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to help! Have fun with it.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| FYI the alternator-length rod will bend the pump lever if you run it with a generator-style pump |
BTW that is not making sense. Gen fuel pump uses a 108 mm long push rod and the pump lever is slightly up inside the pump base.
There are some shorty alt type fuel pumps that will use the longer 108 mm push rod.
Alt fuel pump with lever is slightly lower sticking out of the pump base uses a 100 mm long push rod.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=632128&highlight=fuel+pump+rod+length
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...+fuel+pump
So if you use a gen fuel pump with shorter 100 mm push rod, you are more likely to have not enough fuel pumped, but will not damage the fuel pump.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
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Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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OLD VW NUT
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2011
Posts: 2776
Location: High Desert of Washington 98823
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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The first post with the engine noise reminds me of the 'tink' noise I was getting with my 71 Ghia when I first drove it. I had to tow it home about 120 miles since the generator bearings were too shot to drive it. Got that fixed and decided to drive it for a few weeks to see what I got for my money ($2500). I kept hearing this little tink noise but it wasn't constant. Best I could tell it was coming from the left rear of the car. I popped all the hubcaps thinking a small rock might have gotten inside - no rocks.
Anyway - to make a long story short when my nephew and I yanked the motor to put in the 72 super I was selling we had to remove the 34ICT Webers. I lifted the L/H side manifold off and there sat this polished little jewel of a screw. I wasn't quite big enough to get passed the intake valve so it just merrily hammered away at the intake area and the valve - causing no real damage in the process except to work harden itself. No idea how long it was inside the intake. Looks like a shroud screw but its hard to tell for sure. Some times 'funny' noises aren't so funny. This one turned out to be rather funny IMO. Didn't hurt anything and the motor is running great for my ex-wife's grandson.
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Had same with first car a 1968 auto-stick. Fella who owned it before had rebuilt the engine to long block, went scuba diving and did not come back.
Dad bought the bug from the estate, put the rest of the engine together in an afternoon, and drove it home. Then it was pretty much given to a step uncle who thrashed it, and ended up somehow cracking a cylinder. Dad got it back for me to drive and fix up. Lasted about 3,000 miles more, and a rod bearing went out. Upon taking apart found a stud that was just long enough that it could not fall down into one or the other cylinder ports in the SP head. Nicely polished up like your example...
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
Yes HD springs are required. And these days when I hear stock springs I wonder how many stock springs re left?? Do they even make stock springs anymore? Probably not.
If you just look at the lobes on the cheater VS a stock cam...........you'll see why the springs need to be stronger  |
You can buy them for a buck and some change from CB. |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| I can't blame Wolfsburg West yet . . . |
Unless they have recently changed their product (and their website gives no indication of that), you can certainly blame WW for selling fuel pump
rebuild kits that are seriously defective. They have been informed, in detail, of what's wrong with them, by myself and by Amskeptic and quite
possibly others, but AFAIK they do not respond to such messages and insist on selling the same crap. It is no exaggeration at all to say that installing one of
those kits, unless one is aware of the defects and knows how to compensate for them, puts your vehicle in serious danger of burning to the ground.
It is a matter of speculation as to how many VW's have already been burnt because of these bogus kits, as they seem to have been around for several years.
Judging by product photos, it appears this same kit is also being distributed by other sellers, and in fact seems to be the only rebuild kit available for the fuel pumps in question. There are several topics on thesamba discussing this issue, and also at www.itinerant-air-cooled.com.
I don't know about others, but this behavior by WW seems to me to be not only extremely irresponsible, but downright criminal.
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LivinInnaVWBus
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2013
Posts: 968
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| I can't blame Wolfsburg West yet . . . |
Unless they have recently changed their product (and their website gives no indication of that), you can certainly blame WW for selling fuel pump
rebuild kits that are seriously defective. They have been informed, in detail, of what's wrong with them, by myself and by Amskeptic and quite
possibly others, but AFAIK they do not respond to such messages and insist on selling the same crap. It is no exaggeration at all to say that installing one of
those kits, unless one is aware of the defects and knows how to compensate for them, puts your vehicle in serious danger of burning to the ground.
It is a matter of speculation as to how many VW's have already been burnt because of these bogus kits, as they seem to have been around for several years.
Judging by product photos, it appears this same kit is also being distributed by other sellers, and in fact seems to be the only rebuild kit available for the fuel pumps in question. There are several topics on thesamba discussing this issue, and also at www.itinerant-air-cooled.com.
I don't know about others, but this behavior by WW seems to me to be not only extremely irresponsible, but downright criminal. |
What kind of issues are you guys having? I've got one of the rebuild kits, supplied by CIP1 a year or two ago. I never used it after I read this - http://www.vintagewerks.com/Fuel%20Pumps/fp_restoration.html
" In our experience, the part which most often causes a problem in the fuel pump is the diaphragm. With age, it hardens and cannot be actuated or develops a leak in which case it fails to hold pressure. At one time of course original German rebuild kits with quality replacement diaphragms were available but these are essentially no more. About the only rebuild kits currently available are manufactured in Brazil. Put simply, our experience with the diaphragms in these kits has been disappointing--they utilize material of inferior quality and weight and are cut to incorrect dimensions. As a result, leakage or premature failure often result.
To avoid these problems, we refuse to use commercial fuel pump rebuild kits. Instead, we remanufacture the original German diaphragms using gasket material of like quality cut to original dimensions. This is in the best interest of the customer to restore proper fuel pump function, maintain originality and keep costs manageable. In the process, we make the diaphragm indefinitely rebuildable by replacing the central rivet with a machine screw which can be removed and new gasket material put in place at any time. To accommodate our customers, we offer precut gasket material separately for those who which to carry a spare.
Vintage Werks charges a minimum labor rate of $135 to $165 for a basic fuel pump rebuild. Any parts used or special machining to repair damage or wear, as well as nominal fees for plating services and shipping, are additional. " |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I put in the H30/31 and 205T distributor and have been trying to dial it in.. It lopes badly on first startup for about a minute right now like it's not firing on all 4 cylinders. Anyway, that aside, I hear a clicking noise under all the valvetrain sounds and I'm wondering if something isn't right. Would y'all watch this short video of the engine running and tell me if there's anything that doesn't sound right?
The engine is in a 71 bus and has about 1600 miles on it since rebuild.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
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VWfinatic273 
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Kernersville, NC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject: Checking over |
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Good attention to detail, very important!!!
Be sure to check:
Measure and inspect the thrust area of the thrust bearing surface on the block near the flywheel. You may have to cut and oversize the block.
Bolt and torque case halves together with no bearings or crank or cam. Shine light from back and see if you see light between case half seating surface areas, if you do this would indicate block warpage. Using inside guages measure the bearing surfaces. You'll probably need to line bore the case but measuring will tell you how much you need to cut and oversize. You want to take as little as possible! This will allow for more rebuilds later.
Check near #3 cylinder on back of block by flywheel for cracks. Depending on casting of your block it may be prone to a crack. Later model blocks were thicker and filled in in that area.
Measure your crankshaft and rods.
Take your valves out of your cylinder heads and check for loose valve seats, I had a strange noise one time and found a seat just starting to come loose.
Seeing the bolt makes me wonder what else went through there. Another engine I found the accelerator tube from the carburetor got sucked in and chewed up. Fortunately though the brass tube took the beating but did make some racket!
Check your cylinders for cracks too!
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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I just finished up a 1,000 mile round trip to D/FW and learned a lot... My engine ran well for the most part, but I violated a basic rule and swapped in two 'new' parts the night before my trip; the H30/31 carb and 205T distributor.
I never could get the idle mixture screw to go rich enough; so I fiddled with the carb almost every day for a week trying to get a hesitation out and fine tune the idle. Then my points started closing up on me during the trip back and started running rough about 100 miles from home. My dual-port manifold bolt through the case pulled out, the oil pressure switch started leaking at the threads and getting blown all over the engine bay, and one of my gallery plugs in front of the switch started leaking. Then I found part of my idle shaft cam rolling around the engine tin; the nut spun loose off the shaft while I was driving.
This engine never left me stranded, even though I had plenty of spares with me in case of failures. My gas gauge reads 1/4 full when it's empty, though, but that's another story, haha.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
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