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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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I just purchased a 85 vanagon. I will let it run about 10 15 minutes then the coolant starts to boil in the expansion tank and blow out the vents . The coolant temp gauge don't show the eng overheating. I thought it might be the head gasket but its not smoking at all. runs smooth also it does buck every now and then in 4th gear. I'm a body and frame man not to much in the engine dept. besides the basics |
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RocketBox Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2014 Posts: 354 Location: Boise, ID
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Transmission cooler failure? I just experienced something similar - as time progressed the symptoms got worse for about a month till my transmission fluid looked like a strawberry milkshake. I ended up replacing the original trans cooler with the gowesty unit and flushing the cooling system and the transmission 3 times each. Check your trans fluid and see what it looks like. Check your coolant reservoir and see if there is trans fluid in it - it should rise tothe top and float above the coolant. If so... this may be what yyou're looking at. Its a messy job, but not the worst thing. Pm me if you've got questions. _________________ 84 Vanagon - tintop, 1.9L wbx. Complete Rebuild done August 2014. 2000~ miles on it so far... SOLD
80 Vanagon Camper ASI Riveria - subaru 2.2 conversion project. 1993 Subary legacy donor car + Riveria = AWESOME! |
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RocketBox Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2014 Posts: 354 Location: Boise, ID
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure why it quad posted... sorry about that. (Moderator note: Repeat posts removed.) I should also say this may be the case if its an auto. Not sure about manuals... I dont think they have a trans cooler. _________________ 84 Vanagon - tintop, 1.9L wbx. Complete Rebuild done August 2014. 2000~ miles on it so far... SOLD
80 Vanagon Camper ASI Riveria - subaru 2.2 conversion project. 1993 Subary legacy donor car + Riveria = AWESOME! |
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hdenter Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008 Posts: 2749 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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First get your multi meter and test the sender and the wires to make sure that your gauge is working. Then, get a hand held infrared temp sensor and start taking measurements. It could be that the thermostat is stuck closed, your radiator could be clogged, your water pump could be crappy. If this only happens when it is sitting still and everything is fine when you drive around, it may be that the radiator fan is not switching on. If you suspect that the head gasket is leaking then get it to a shop that does smog tests and have them smell the coolant tank to see if there are exhaust gasses in
the coolant.
Good Luck!
Hans _________________ '79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender |
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geo_tonz Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2012 Posts: 1472 Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Cap on expansion tank shot? Can get it tested. Not expensive to replace. Failure means it won't hold pressure and boils over. Doesn't overheat and doesn't boil over until up to temp and coolant system under pressure 10-15min.
Other posibilities are air in the system that needs to be bled, or a cylinder seal allowing combustion gases in...
Bucking probably unrelated...plugs, wires, distributor, grounds, corroded red EFI wire, vaccum leak, vanagon syndrom... _________________ ---------------------------------------------------
"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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Mellow Yellow 74 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 1615 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:17 am Post subject: |
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geo_tonz wrote: |
Cap on expansion tank shot. |
For $9.95 at Van Cafe, definitely the first thing I would look at _________________ 1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: |
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geo_tonz wrote: |
...Other possibilities... a cylinder seal allowing combustion gases in... |
This would be high on my list of suspects.
It looks for all the world like the coolant is boiling over, but what actually occurs is combustion gases leak into the cooling system and force coolant our the relief holes in the overflow reservoir.
In this scenario, nothing looks amiss in the exhauist.
The telling clue is the '10 to 15 minutes' -- that's pretty quick to achieve notable boiling of the coolant but about the right time frame for a head 'gasket' leak. |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
geo_tonz wrote: |
...Other possibilities... a cylinder seal allowing combustion gases in... |
This would be high on my list of suspects.
It looks for all the world like the coolant is boiling over, but what actually occurs is combustion gases leak into the cooling system and force coolant our the relief holes in the overflow reservoir.
In this scenario, nothing looks amiss in the exhauist.
The telling clue is the '10 to 15 minutes' -- that's pretty quick to achieve notable boiling of the coolant but about the right time frame for a head 'gasket' leak. |
yep. i had this. i spent a long time in denial, faulty cap, air in system, cooling system plumbed wrong, but it got worse and i got better and pouring coolant back into the van from the tank behind the licence plate.
apparently sometimes you can tighten the head nuts to fix this. however, be careful as you don't want to snap the stud that holds the head on.
for sure, buy a new blue cap and try the easy things first. to "test" the old one, do your hoses feel firm when the van is warmed up, or soft? if soft, then the system is not holding pressure.
i think you'd need to have a faulty thermostat for this to actually cause boiling though. if you use an IR thermometer you can check the temperature at the waterpump area.
or, cheapy cheap test again, check those hoses. those diagnostic hoses, the big fat ones that lead to the front of the van. do they feel warm when it is boiling or stone cold. _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Winter usually finishes of a marginal thst & they mostly stick shut. |
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OhChit Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2004 Posts: 271
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Where is it that you actually see the water exiting the engine from?
Can you actually see water escaping from the water reservoir swirl Tank located on the left side just under hatch cover?
If so it could be a bad cap, or cracked water bottle. But I'd replace both the cap and water reservoir because manytimes over the 30 years age and use the threads on the water bottle get distorted causing the cap not to seal tightly.
I have also seen many "new" bad water bottle caps recently that will not release at the proper pressure.
You should be able to take the cap off and blow into the nipple and hear either a slight squeak sound or air escaping through the other end..
If the above is good, my Bet is it's your Thermostat stuck closed, or with the cold temps ice dammed.
OR
I notice your located in the cold zone so I'd check for proper antifreeze levels the Van just might not have the proper amount of antifreeze in the system.
DO NOT LET The Van Run very long with these symptoms or you may be looking toasted engine that needs rebuilding because your starving the engine of cooling!
Work smart and check and recheck your steps.
After sitting overnight and With the engine cold open the water bottle and see if you see any slushy gelled water or ice in there? The Ice dam could also be in one of the cooling hoses blocking water flow. BTW Running the engine to warm it up will not melt the ice dam before damaging the engine!
You may want to wait for a warmer day to see if the problem reoccurs.
Did the Van run Ok when you purchased it? _________________ Fast Cars, and Slow Women Makes me DrooL. |
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:07 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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Thanks for the info. As far as my van it is a manual transmission, sorry I should have said that in my 1st post |
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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Excuse me I'm finally getting used to using forums. The heater didn't get warm. I tried opening the radiator bleeder and let it run for almost 20 minutes, and never got any coolant to spew out. Would that be maybe the thermostat being bad?As far as the bucking I still got to do a tune up but I'm waiting until I get the coolant issue solved. This is my 1st vanagon and I love it as much as my 70 1/2 Pontiac. It is a real blast to drive. I had let it run for 20 to 30 minutes at a time and drove it around my yard, but when I put tags and insurance and got it state inspected thats when it started boiling over. I think it didn't like getting inspected ( LOL ). |
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wecm31 Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2012 Posts: 358 Location: Eganville, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: |
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You may still have multiple issues...thermostat being on the list.
but you should confirm the coolant is fully bled of air, getting some to flow
out of the radiator vent is critical. I may be wrong...but I think the way the
flow path is, even with a closed thermostat that should be possible.
here's the word on the subject....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=234192&highlight=libby _________________ Gerald P
1985 Vanagon (Betty) & 1985 BMW R80RT (Wilhelm)
vintage boxers!!
Gone are the days we stopped to decide
Where we should go, we just ride:) |
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atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
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how hot and hard are your hoses? give them a feel. it's ok.
re bleeding, there is an extremely easy to break plastic bleeder in between the two fat coolant hoses at the top, closest to front, of the engine compartment.
see number 9, number 9, number 9... anyway, easy to break, ok? (i now have an aluminium one). there could be air in there.
kudos to ben www.benplace.com for the image (and google for the search)
http://www.benplace.com/vanagon_digijet_engine_component.htm
_________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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Mellow Yellow 74 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 1615 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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ammoturtle wrote: |
The heater didn't get warm....Would that be maybe the thermostat being bad? |
The water supply to the heater runs independently to the thermostat, but if your thermostat is stuck open the engine (and therefore the heater) will take a long time to warm up.
I would do a coolant drain and flush, replace the thermostat and cap then refill and bleed the system. _________________ 1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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It didn't run because the person I got the van from put bad gas in it. I drained the tank and prged the lines and it started up. The man works with me drove it all the time until the bad gas came into play. |
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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I forgot to tell everyone thanks a million for everyone's help. I was considering a Subaru swap but changed my mind, I want to keep it all VW. I don't have a smog station in Elliston or even near hear, is there any other way to check the coolant for emissions in it? |
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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the hoses feel soft and not warm. I've got to get me a tester for the caps and cooling system. I'm looking at one fromeharbor freight but it don't look like the one from Van-Cafe. does any one know if a standard tester would work? |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9776 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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ammoturtle wrote: |
...is there any other way to check the coolant for emissions in it? |
Auto parts stores sell a kit to do this at home - I have never used one though so can't speak to how effective it is.
Here is one sold at AutoZone.
There is a tester sold to use the liquid with, but as this (creepy) video suggests - may be possible to fab one from common items.
Link
Typically if this is occurring, the first symptom to appear on a closely observed engine will be 'air' accumulating in the top of the pressurized coolant tank. This one:
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ammoturtle Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Lewisville, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: 85 vanagon boiling over |
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Yes it does look like that in the tank. So if I'm understanding your reply then I've most likely got a blown head gasket.Because after watching it closely it looks like someone blowing in the tank then overfilling my reservoir causing coolant to flow out of the little air hole on top. I work 3rd shift so most of my work is outside without a garage. At least I've got a good drop light. |
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