Is our hobby dying?

[swhitcomb]

Is it just me, or is our hobby dying? I belong to a Super Beetle only group on Facebook, and the level of ignorance on it is disheartening. People who are cheap, won't spend $18 to fix things properly, stupid things they are told by the seller of the car they bought, stupid uninformed advise, etc. the group has 100s of members and maybe 3 who know what they are talking about. It seems like the number of people who actually know VWs is decreasing daily.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I take pride in my work. I do things properly, or not at all. When I have questions, I research them and get the right answer. Not just the first answer some random Facebook stranger gives me. As an example, there was a guy who decided to change from an generator to an alternator. He didn't know the stand was different. The first idiot who replied said "well just grind it down until it fits". After multiple posts of me telling him it was a bad idea and providing links to buy the proper part, he ground it down, threw it back together, and said "well it worked" and deleted all the posts.

Maybe just a rant. Maybe it's always been this way and I never noticed. Last year I bought a Boxster, and the Porsche forum is totally different. People are willing to spend money, and not cheap.
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My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster

[D/A/N]

[79SuperVert]

IMO it's too hard to generalize about the state of the hobby from the behavior of a few people on a forum.

Just like it would be wrong of me to generalize about all Boxster owners from the one I met at a car show. I asked him if I could see what the engine looks like. He said he didn't know how to do that as he had never seen the engine himself.
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Central Jersey VW Society

Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.

[swhitcomb]

[ROCKOROD71]

Switcomb, I have to say that part of the problem is the lack of guidance from the previous generations of dubbers. Maybe it's just around here, but I had trouble in the past finding someone to help teach me the ropes. My old man and his brother were American muscle car guys, and had very little patience and/or interest in helping me out with my kraut-mobile when I was younger. I'm 33 now, and I've touched just about every nut and bolt on my beetle since I bought it at 15. Back then i didn't know of any clubs, the Samba didn't exist, and the only place I knew of that had parts was Rocky Mountain Motorworks and JC Whitney, so alot of garbage parts were thrown at the old girl, many she still wears.
I've offered my labor in exchange for some learnin' at many places and got turned down, but I think we have a mutual friend who lives up here in MA with his own shop, who has been very kind to me in recent years and has been willing to teach me a thing or two about a thing or two. He recently built stock engine for me that turned out amazing and it was a learning experience for me just in hunting down parts and seeing whats out there. He has taken others who just want to learn under his wing too. It's guys like this that will keep things moving in a positive direction.
Guys who are ignoring good advise and hacking their cars will be selling them off to the next sucker in short order, then bitching about how they lost money on the deal. Or bringing the REAL ACVW mechanics basket case cars to sort out. Every VW out there will eventually land in the hands of someone who wants to do it right, it just might have to pass through a few nightmare POs first.
People love these cars, I think the hobby is pretty safe. Hopefully I'll be working on them for a few more decades! And I plan on doing things the right way.
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1971 STD BEETLE- DD-1st car, 1st love. keepin' it stock! 1600DP, Solex 34-3 Mexi Bosch SVDA Dist NOW w/POINTS
1977 WESTY "KrustyKamper" 2L FI

[Steve22]

[swhitcomb]

[RosemaryT]

I'm the founder and administrator for an 800+ member group on old houses. Seems like the world is changing, and too many young folks don't have the motivation to invest time in learning about "the old ways."

One of my reasons for getting a vintage VW is that I want to do a little "hands on" maintenance myself, which - IMHO - is better than sitting on your arse and doing crossword puzzles.

I love all things old, and I love history, and I love listening to old people tell their stories, but for some reason, seems like the younger generations haven't been bitten by (dare I say) that bug.

Plus, as a big fan of history, one of the 1,398 reasons I want a bug is The Carrington Event. If you want something new to worry about, check *THAT* out! LOL.

[Volks Wagen]

What I hate to hear is: "I'll just junk this motor and get a new one" Same with all original bits - they get junked and are lost forever.
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1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.

I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.

Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.

[swhitcomb]

Agreed. "I'll scrap the German part that lasted 40+ years and buy a new Chinese one."
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My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster

[andk5591]

In general "hands-on" hobbies and interests are fading and its not just a recent thing. Find a real old (like 60's) Popular Mechanix magazine and it is loaded with "how to's" - seemed like back in the day, lots of folks had a workshop or at least a workbench to build or fix things. Everything now is disposable.

And we have gotten lazy as well as expecting instant gratification. Just how it is. And if you want an old car or want one fixed, you just write a check. I know more and more "younger" car enthusiast - like in their 30s, that really dont know shit about their cars.

BUT doing my part - my 9 year old grandson is my car show buddy and he gets his hands dirty on my cars as much as he can.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[birddog1]

I think the road ahead is ACVW will move more and more into a collectors realm than daily driver enthusiast. Much of the interest has been driven by baby boomers who never left or returned to relive old memories. Minimal knowledge but have a "good shop".

As knowledge passes, shops disappear and parts get scarce it will be for a few hardy souls to have them as cars to be driven not just admired.

But there will always be that moment like I had last week when I pulled into a post office and pulled next to a nicely restored 69. Out comes a 20 something girl, tattoos, piercings and we talk about the car her BF just restored

[swhitcomb]

Perhaps I was raised differently. My dad always taught me how to fix things. We worked on our house together. Worked on VWs together. The Ghia I own now was his and he and I worked on it when I was a kid. He was never the write a check and get it done kind of guy. When I was 19 I moved out of CA and to a part of Virginia with a bunch of college educated yet dumb people. Sure they make 100s of 1000s of dollars a year, and live in the million dollar houses, but they are clueless when it comes to anything mechanical. I just figured it was the area and the demo. But maybe that's just what America has become. Most of it anyway. I since have moved about 30 miles west to a part of West Virginia that still has blue collar people and affordable housing. I live in a very nice neighborhood, yet my neighbors and I all work on our own cars.

My wife grew up with a single mom. Her and her brother know nothing about home repair. She always seems amazed when I can do something. 5 or 6 years ago I tore out our carpet and installed hardwood. Myself. I taught her how to do it as we went. In the end, she was good at it. We finished the last room in the house in under 2 hours and that included moving the furniture. Yet when I started the project, her question was "how do you know how to do this?" Simple, my dad taught me when I was in high school. We put down a really nice bamboo floor for $1.99 a square foot. To pay someone it would have been $5-8 a square foot.
_________________
My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster

[hitest]

To answer your question, no, it isn't dying. With the internet, we just are now able to see it refining. It's just tough to "witness" this in (real time, gotta have results now) before our eyes. There are plenty of folks who are faster typists than "searchers" these days- but sadly, it's likely evident in many more aspects of their lives.

I'm becoming increasingly numb to threads that quickly decline into those like your generator stand example. Remember when Bill Mays was always on here? When he grew tired of the way things were going, he backed out (I don't blame him). I miss his wisdom. There are relatively few areas on these cars that I am confident I have the best answer for, but when I offer it and the posters and hecklers don't use it, I move on to other threads. When my posts stop mid-thread on an unresolved problem, that means I've moved over to bigger fish- and usually, more quality-oriented people in our hobby.

(I do enjoy the occasional sadistic "I told you so," however...)
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[Jeff_Birt]

A large percentage of young people have never had the opportunity to do any real hands on activities before. I see this all the time at the university where students lack even basic problem solving skills and can draw up things on the computer that can never actually be made. My favorite story on this subject is:

A number of years ago a graduate student came into the shop and said "I need a square hole drilled here." I explained to them that drills make round holes. When I went home I was telling my wife about it and my then 12 year old daughter days, "Drill bits are round right? And they spin around so the hole will always be a circle." (Yes I know there are special triangular bits that spin off axis and can approximate a square hole.)

The point being that mechanical aptitude has nothing to do with intelligence it has to do with exposure to such things and God given talent.

[[email protected]]

also, a lot of younger people have never EVER had to learn patience. I-phones. Fast food. 5 min pizza. Heck, even instant epoxy instead of having to wait 24-48hrs for it to cure up.

Waiting and taking a long time to do things teaches you things that can't be learned any other way. While waiting for one thing, you learn to do something else instead of watching the kettle come to a boil, right?

The hobby has been "dying" for 30 years. I think Gene Berg's "Death of an Industry" was written in 1985 or so.
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[swhitcomb]

I think you're right John. Funny thing is, I'd say that early to mid 1980s Los Angeles was the peak of the hobby. That's when gene berg wrote that book.
_________________
My 71 Ghia Been in my family since 1980
My Patina 66
My 74 Ghia
07 Boxster

[gt1953]

The fix it generation is slowly going away. The younger generation (not all) are not fix it hands on like many of us.
Like the shoe repair man they are hard to find, the alteration lady hard to find. Bet the list goes on.
It is easier to just throw it away and get a new on. They ain't like they used to be. A refurbished geniune orginal part is so much better.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})

[rustfree1967bug]

Not sure if this has anything to do with the hobby dying or not, but over the last few years it has become near impossible for me to sell anything old vw. I feel i list my cars and parts pretty fairly but yet i can sit on everything for months and months, swing axle trans for $100, solid front beams for $100-150, Pretty decent fenders for $25-40 each. You can check my classifieds and see the cars i have listed as well. All i get are people who act all interested and then back out or i never hear from them again. It gets real frustrating and the last few bugs i parted out and junked i only kept the big ticket items and let the rest go to the crusher. It simply isn't worth the time to pull and save every little part anymore. I have definetly noticed a change since i started in this hobby 10 years ago.
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'70 ghia
'69 ghia
'65 singlecab
'66 sunroof beetle
'74 bus
'67 so-42


IDA's...well... they talk dirty -MURZI

[HRVW]

How very very true. I noticed the trend in VW slowly drawing to a close back in the early 1990's.

The supply of rebuildable quality used cases has been obvious...look at GEX and their case halves being different should be a clue.

Parts houses like SCS and others closed the doors long ago...they saw the writing on the wall as did I also.

I'm in Baja with a load of small items (brought with me on retirement) that I know are in demand based upon some needs here but costly to ship even from SD. I have sold a few things that people were happy to get a hold of while most items in the trash barrel after my demise.

I put together two large filled 3 ring binders of articles from HVW and VW trend magazines from yrs ago....lot of good info for a starting novice...pictures, diagrams, tech info (numbers) whole ball of wax.

Tis a shame all going to waste.