Engine Compartment sticker- need specs

bill iler

Still on my quest to replicate all the 1970 Ghia engine bay stickers and stampings.

Determining there was a shadow of what appears to have been an emission-like sticker on the upper right of my fan shroud. It's about 2 x 4.5 long. Concluding (guessing) this may have been the starting point of the 70's emission decal.

I want to reproduce this sticker and I only have some 1974 Thing examples to work from.

I don't know the specs for a factory , early (Feb 1970) 1600 engine in a Ghia, WITHOUT any charcoal canister from the factory- So if someone here can point out any edits needed for a 70 Ghia, to change the lines below (which are applicable to a 74 Thing) I would be grateful:

(1) Engine Code: AM-K Engine Size 97 CID

(2) Idle RPM87.5 +- 75 Idle CO SETTING 1,5 +- 0,5 VOL%

(3) Engine Oil Temp 122-158F

(4) Crankcase emission control closed system (Note: I intend to delete the line altogether, but I don't really know what makes a 'closed emission system'. my M157 code indicates emission ready engine... Really, I just am basing my comment about not a closed system, because my Ghia did not come with any charcoal canisters. It does have a throttle adjustment module on the firewall, and some closed-loop hoses in the front /trunk for the gas fumes. Would this statement be 'true' then, for my 70?

akear · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject:

Bill- do you mean upper left? Are you sure a sticker goes there? On my '70, that corner of the shroud is where the auxilary fuse holders for backup and rear defog are mounted. There isn't room for a 4.5x2 in. sticker too. Have you ever seen a sticker there pre-74? I'd like mine to be correct too so I'm very curious about this.

djkeev · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:52 am Post subject:

Bone Stock 69......... Original engine even.

Do you mean right above the intake hose in this photo?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:16 am Post subject:

My error....I meant, the "other upper right"- the area at issue is on the left-hand side.

That;s where there's a shadow of a 2 x 4.5 sicker. I also still have the timing sticker in place, and I see the outline of the valve adjustment sticker. The shroud is original to the car, too. Yes...this is a crazy, really minor point of the engine resto but its been fun to sort it out.

I'm surprised at how hard it is to verify the original appearance- Can't find anything in the on-line brochures (other than the single one I have found with the sticker shown on it) and even the pic gallery of owners with original 70,71, 72 cars, does not have clear shots of the engine bay as it came from the factory.

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:23 am Post subject:

The mystery sticker would be right above the coil, in the engine photo.

I've confirmed the 97 CID

I still need to verify (1) if this is a 'closed emission' car-

and (2)what is the "Engine Code"?

-Zodiac- · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:12 am Post subject:

Yer engine code is right below the generator stand, I think it should be AE?

Edit: you should have the 1600 single port - B coded
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1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

akear · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject:

Here are 2 stock '70 KG engine bays (the yellow one is mine) both showing the auxiliary fuse holders where the illusive sticker goes. I'm not sure we can assume the ghost outline was from an emissions sticker. Could be anything, like (as a wild guess) maybe a piece of Styrofoam was glued there as packing when the shrouds were made and stored, which was removed during assembly.

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Zodiac, yes mine is a B so that is the code I will replicate on the sticker.

Take a look at the technical sections, brochures, the 70 brochure (titled "Is it really a sports car?") clearly shows an emission-sized sticker in the area at issue. I can't think of any reason for other stickers there. Not sure I agree with the packing theory in the earlier post,either- why would a factory photo show a packing item, since it was assembled there?

There are almost identical brochures for 69, 70 and 71. VW definitely updated them and did not just reissue for each year. (ie the Albert Blau color which was not listed in the 69 or 71 brochures, is listed in the 70 version...). But the engie pic is the same on each brochure. Check out the last two pages- there is a cut-away view of the rear engine area, and you can easily make out the sticker on the shroud- but its too far away to see what is written on it.

The engine pictured, which looks like the same one for each brochure, as early as '69 , shows an emission device on the carb- a down throttle, which, at least in practice on the 70 was separately mounted on the firewall but later moved to the carb itself (more simple).

So..the engine shown, even in 69, had some items that were 'advanced' and I am wondering the sticker was one such item- and my early 70, definitely had something there, you can see almost the glue traces. I think VW was getting ready for the emissions rules in the US at least a year in advance. The only counterpoint to this is the lack of anyone else having evidence of such a sticker, in that location....which is definitely giving me a pause.

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject:

-Zodiac- · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject:

I don't know why there's a little sticker in those ads?

here's an ad from a 72 or a 73 that shows no sticker

a very stock looking 68? sporting the sticker

heres a re-made sticker- all of the legible ones i could find all say 74 Confused

only thing else I could think of it being is a timing sticker, or a valve adjustment sticker?
_________________
1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:30 pm Post subject:

The German brochure would not have needed a US EPA sticker. (That's a really different battery tie down, too, from any I ever saw before.)

I think there were already valve and tming stickers on those shrouds (they are square and smaller, silver foil.)

I would like to find the owner of that blue car at the show and find out what the sticker says- I can barely make out red writing, and I don't really see the large VW circular logo in the right side of the sticker that the other ones have...but that could just be my eyesight. I also cant tell if thats a 69 or 68 but the carb device and the rest of it, looks identical to the 69 thru 71 brochure pics..

So there it is, this unknown sticker with the same shape. on a 69 and up car that shows emission control equipment on it (the throttle control valve on the carb)....maybe the first runs had bad glue or bad material and fell right off??

(Where is the barn-find, 5K original mile 70 Ghia I need to verify this???)

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:58 pm Post subject:

I just checked the code M26 which you can see on the orange car's shroud- it's indicating a charcoal canister model, which was installed after a certain engine number.

-Zodiac- · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:13 pm Post subject:

my brain fails me - of course German cars wouldn't need to meet us specs Brick wall

the battery mounts are like that on my 73

I noticed that I couldn't find the red vw logo either. apparently the guy that owns that 68 is Tom Cobb I found an article - apparently an untouched survivor that has been amazingly preserved - link - http://www.rokemneedlearts.com/carsindepth/wordpressblog/?p=2736

maybe he's on here somewhere? the article was written in 2011
he was/is a member of Lafayette Indiana historic auto club - so maybe you could contact them somehow to get a hold of him ?

Goodluck
_________________
1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

bill iler · Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject:

Wow...this is the 'barn find' i wished for!! Thanks for the article link. I think I found Mr Cobb on linkedIn and PM'd him. I could not find him on here.

bill iler · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject:

Finally!! Got it ID'd definitively!

The 68 Ghia Owner sent me a somewhat clearer pic of the sticker:

it is definitely an emission sticker and I can make out about 90% of the words. MOst if it relates to the throttle and it is unlike any I have seen online before- and it appears to be foil, similar to the valve adjustment and timing stickers which seemed to fall off easily. That may explain why this larger sticker- in a hot area- may not have survived on most cars.

I am going to post the semi-clearer pic later, and have asked owner for a better pic. Finally, one mystery solved. Thanks to everyone who helped-

John Moxon · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:23 am Post subject:

Please continue in original topic: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7489199&highlight=#7489199
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