Lowered swingaxle beetle question.

[wellcraft]

I just checked my service manual and it shows that the spring plate setting angle for swing axle models is
without equalizer spring 17-degrees, 30-minutes+-50-minutes
with equalizer spring 20-degrees +- 50-minutes

I'm guessing I don't have an equalizer as I haven't seen any bar going from one side to the other, is that the same as a sway bar?

If mine is the one without the equalizer, how do I read this 17-degrees, 30-minutes+-50-minutes
Would that be 17.5 degrees?
How about the +-50-minutes?

How do I gain the extra .5 degrees, moving the inner splines?

Let me see if I get this straight, if I get let say 16 degree by just playing with the outer splines and I need to get it to 17.5 degrees, the way I get the extra 1.5 degrees would be moving to the opposite direction but with the inner splines? Hope I'm starting to get this right.

BTW, forgot to mention that I did a mark on the end of the spring so I know what my starting point was.

[modok]

Correct, down is higher.

I believe models with the "equalizer" used a smaller torsion bar, so that is the reason they are set different.

Like I said, go one inner spline the way you want to go, then one outer spline back, and it should be 1 degree more. 1 degree is about a 1/4 inch ride height. the inner splines more it MORE than the outer.

The minutes is like time, 60 minutes in one degree.

[wellcraft]

[modok]

Um, yeah I think that's the right idea.

It is simpler to say, to decide what angle you want to set it at, and keep screwing with it until it is at that angle.

whatcha shooting for?? 21 and 22?

[wellcraft]

Not sure as here is my next question.

I would be working on this in a bit and just realized there are 2 version of swing axles.

Short and long swing axles.

Mine is a 1999 Mexican beetle with the swing axle, so which one would I have short or long?

The specs shows
17 degrees, 30 minutes +/-50 minutes for short axle bug and
20 degrees +/- 50 minutes for long axle and IRS bugs.

If is 17 degrees, 30 minutes +/-50 minutes how would that translate when making the adjustment, same with 20 degrees +/- 50 minutes.

With this info I should be able to get it done, I hope.

[modok]

There are different sizes of trosion bar, diameter and length, and I don't know what a mexican bettle has. If you can, put some dial calipers on the torsion bar and find out the diameter. Might be 22mm(.866inches) And how long is the bar?? 26" 24" long?

If not then that's fine too, you should know how it sat before as it's your car, each degree is about a 1/4 inch so just guess.

[wellcraft]

I couldn't work on the car today but I was able to find some pictures and it looks like I have a long swing axle, so that means my factory specs are supposed to be 20 degrees +/- 50’ for 67-68 long axle per this site although mine is a 1999 http://www.airheadparts.com/vw-rear-height-adjustment.

So how do I interpret this 20 degrees +/- 50’ ?

The previous setting I thought i was going to use was 17 degrees, 30 minutes, +/- 50 minutes as I didn't know the short and long axles, I believe 17 degrees, 30 minutes, +/- 50 = setting the spring plate angle between 18 degrees, 20 minutes on the + side to 16 degrees, 40 minutes on the minus side. (was able to find it on the interpret as I haven't been able to figure out how to translate those measurements).

If I can get that info I could jump into this tomorrow and hopefully be done with it.

Pics of long and short axles

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/2274542.jpg

https://www.google.com/search?q=difference+short+v...B739%3B793

[modok]

50 minutes = about 0.8 degrees....... so that means the spec is approx 19.2-20.8

I thought you said it was set at 18.5 degrees? Door at 5.5 and spring plate at 13 right? that's now lowered very much, more like normal sag from old age. If you want it higher then may as well set it a degree or two more than your spec.

Is your car on the heavy side? It's not a fat chick but maybe has gained a few pounds over the years?

[wellcraft]

[wellcraft]

To the poster who asked about the front, I'm going to get new stock front spindles to correct the height also, so I'm going back to stock all around.

[wellcraft]

Update,

For future references Hopkins and I were able to determine that the newer Mexican Beetles have long axles, mine is a 1999 and his is a 1996 I believe.

You can read over hear, someone showing the differences. http://www.dunebuggyarchives.com/ShortVSLong.

Hopkins and I compared those pics with our cars and they are the same as the long axles on that article. Thanks to him as he has the service manual for the Mexi beetles we found the information I was looking for, the spring plate angle which is 20 degrees, +50.

I didn't want to work on the car until i was able to get the settings, so hopefully I will be tackling this tomorrow.

Thanks Hopkins for spending all that time today to help me out and thanks to everyone else who also helped.

[wellcraft]

I have the drivers side at 17.5 degrees plus the extra 5 degree angle of the door sill for a total of 22.5. Previously it was at 13+5 degrees for a total of 18.

Per specs I'm suppose to be at 20+5 but I'm trying to compensate since this side was about half inch lower than the passenger side. The car was lowered about 2 or 2.5 inches I was told. Would this be OK to get it right back to stock height?

Want to make sure before putting everything back together.

Just to make sure I'm doing everything the way it suppose to be. Measure the door sills which is 5 degrees and measure the spring plate angle which is 13 degrees when resting without any tension. Then I have to add both and that would be the angle i currently have right?

[wellcraft]

I now did the passenger side and the door sill is at 5.4 degrees and the spring plate was at 13 degrees.

I adjusted the spring plate to 14 9 degrees which puts me at 14.9 + 5.4 degrees of the door sill at 20.3.

I know I was told not to go by measurements, I'm doing it with the digital protractor. When I started I measured the spring plates at rest and they measured 10" both sides from the ground, now I measured them again and the drivers side measure 9" and the passenger side 9.5"

That small difference in inches and degrees would be enough to lift the car at the stock height? I don't now if that small difference make a big difference on the torsion bars to be enough to lift it at the desire height.

Any input?

[modok]

Each degree is about a 1/4 inch, so yeah I think that will be a half inch more one side, and a inch higher the other side.

If it's still too low then you can always do it again. I know that's depressing but now that you know how it will go much faster next time....right

If you lower a bug 2.5 inches, then it will be mainly resting on the rubber stops, and have around 4degree negative camber or more. Was it?? If not then the PO was not entirely honest.

[wellcraft]

[wellcraft]

After doing all the necessary adjustments how do I make sure my camber is within specs?
If I use the same angle finder, would I be able to check the angle on the wheels, if so what would be the angle?
Is that something that needs to be verified with some load on the car so I don't get camber when loading with people and stuff?

[modok]

It's about 2:1 ratio of spring plate angle to camber angle.
so, 4 degrees higher at the spring plate will be +2 positive camber.

It would have been useful to have checked the camber before taking it apart.

[Hnoroian]

Your updated deg measurements were really close. By the view your buddy had while behind you saying that you were off, ould you have different fenders for the "bad camber" look? Modok mentioned could be old age as well.
_________________
Stupid people do stupid things.

[andk5591]

DOnt even worry abou trying to measure the camber accurately until the car has been on the ground and run around a little bit. They settle a little. And yeah - you can use the angle finder.
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[wellcraft]

I lowered the car earlier today and it had some camber, readjusted everything again and still a little bit of camber. But right now I'm at 23.60 degrees pass side and at 26.40 drivers side.

The car still look a little bit with camber, the drivers side is like 3/8 inch higher than the pass side as previously the dr side had a noticiable camber, more than pass side and still it has more camber than the other side.

I think I should add 1 or 2 more degrees tops and the wheels should be straight. Do they suppose to look straight or do they always have a noticiable camber?

The specs call for 20.8 and I think the difference is huge from what I have right now and for what I will be adding, what do u guys think?

Btw, I did level the whole car at 0 degrees at the door sill.