| Author |
Message |
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:43 am Post subject: 1600 first start-very hard to turn over.? |
 |
|
| Okay I just double checked and triple checked everything on my motor it's looking good! I'm trying to start it on the floor and I ran jumper cables to my battery on my jeep with it running so it have a good juice. When I go to crank over the bug motor it's real hard turning over. I checked and I do have gas to the carbs but my concern is with the starter straining to crank the motor over!? Compression is good on all cylinders, oil filled up and end play is set correctly. I guess I'll pull the starter and look for binding somewhere? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Did the crank turn freely before you put the cylinders and heads on?
_________________
The opinion of the author as expressed does not always reflect that of the author nor does he extend any apologies or assume any liability or responsibility for its content or lack thereof or for any lack of humour of the reader of any content at all, anywhere, ever. The reader agrees to all risk by reading it and is advised that any ‘issue’ is theirs alone as they chose to read it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PumaVW79
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012
Posts: 487
Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Retard the timing turning the distributor clockwise and try again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HRVW
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2011
Posts: 2531
Location: Rosarito, Mexico
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
 Lot of potential answers to NO questions asked.
Pull; the spark plugs and try turning the engine over using the starter.
If it turns FREE then re install the plugs.
Bring the pully to TDC ad make sure the rotor is directly under the cap wire and in the 1-4-3-2 order. Static set the dist...tighten the dist clamp...make sure the carb sprays gas and then try it. This was my procedure for starting all my rebuilds before installing into a customers car. I would run the engine for about 1/2 hr...allow to cool and then install....a piece of mind and LABOR saving. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Read up on static timing your distributor. I static time to 9 or 10 degrees for break in. Double check ground connections. Did u forget a 12 v lead to your coil?
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I haven't had time to mess with it I had to go over my friends house and install a radio. Here's a picture before I left I'm thinking the timing is definitely off.
Just got home and had about 15 min to play with it.
Yes coil wire is hooked up. I static timed it, but not sure if I had it set on the #1 cylinder or #3 cylinder....I turned the distributor another 1/2"-1" clockwise and the motor is really TRYING to start but still just cranks and cranks! Haha
It definately cranks easier though. I'm wondering if my plug wires are right. I'll check it out tomorrow and see. Certainly sounds better though. The pic below is BEFORE I turned it clockwise 1"....
Does it look about right?
I'm off work tomorrow morning so I'll try your suggestions. Thank you!
Last edited by 67 Sunroof on Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| '67 Sunroof wrote: |
I haven't had time to mess with it I had to go over my friends house and install a radio. Here's a picture before I left I'm thinking the timing is definitely off.
I'm off work tomorrow morning so I'll try your suggestions. Thank you!
|
I think the screwdriver in your fuel pump is yer problem right there 
_________________
The opinion of the author as expressed does not always reflect that of the author nor does he extend any apologies or assume any liability or responsibility for its content or lack thereof or for any lack of humour of the reader of any content at all, anywhere, ever. The reader agrees to all risk by reading it and is advised that any ‘issue’ is theirs alone as they chose to read it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
check the engine of course -- when I was trying to start an engine out of the car, my crappy jumper cables didn't give a solid connection and the starter could barely turn it over.
_________________
Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Marv [UK] wrote: |
| '67 Sunroof wrote: |
I haven't had time to mess with it I had to go over my friends house and install a radio. Here's a picture before I left I'm thinking the timing is definitely off.
I'm off work tomorrow morning so I'll try your suggestions. Thank you!
|
I think the screwdriver in your fuel pump is yer problem right there |
That was BEFORE I hooked up the gas lines, etc and was setting static timing silly.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2 more pics before I go to work. I have a DVDA distributor. I used the outside nipple and went to a "T". From there i split the vacuum lines and went to each carb like this:
Here is another pic:
I have a 205 dustributor and static timed it to 7.5 degrees btdc. Correct? Both carbs are getting gas. I push on the crossbar and see the gas squirting into them. I also "pre-tuned" the butterflies with a feeler gauge so they would both open up the same and set the idle stop and air screws before I instalked them. Haven't messed with them at all yet though. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Youre arent lined up right on your distributor. The rotor needs to point more to the line so turn your distributor body clockwise. Look for the spark jump just as it opens, lock the nut and start it.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jfats808 wrote: |
| Youre arent lined up right on your distributor. The rotor needs to point more to the line so turn your distributor body clockwise. Look for the spark jump just as it opens, lock the nut and start it. |
Yep ..
If in picture engine at TDC (Actually 7.5° BTDC) and your rotor is pointing at pulley (4:00) then bring notch in dist body (now at 2:00) around to line up with rotor (this will also be #1 tower on dist cap) .... When points just open and light comes on, lock it down...
This is how the gods that created heaven and earth and VW's intended it to be....
I would also disconnect vacuum retard side and leave it disconnected.... maybe replace dist with SVDA dist...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That makes sense Dale. I turned the distributor about 2" clockwise and the engine turns over MUCH easier and even wants to start! I pulled a plug and I'm getting spark but don't smell any gas though...uh-oh!
Wonder where the gas is going that I am squirting into the carbs with the cross bar?
Hope it's not washing out the cylinders.
Anyway, I'll mess with it tomorrow. Soo excited to get her started! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Okay today I went out and double checked my points gap and they were good. I also made sure my wires were not mixed up and labeled my cap-they are good. I set the static timing so I was in the ballpark too. I got out my strobe timing light too for when it started up I could double check. I hooked the motor up to my car with a pushbutton starter.....(it is sitting on the floor dolly now)
Coil wire is hooked up
Timing at 7.5 btdc
Fresh gas
Plugs are getting spark
I don't really want to mess with the throttle linkages because one will affect the other side and I pre-set both at .003 before i installed the carbs per the superformance book.
Ok, When I crank the motor over and give it some gas it wants to run but as soon as I stop pushing the button on the starter it dies every time!? If I keep holding the starter push button down and give it gas it will run....
The Dellorto superformance book says to screw the idle screws out 1 1/4 turns as a baseline but I've tried anywhere from 1/2 turn to 2 turns out and I see no difference. The engine just will not idle by itself. I checked the timing with my strobe while cranking it and it is spot on-7.5° before top dead center.
Any ideas where to start?
I'm gonna pull a plug and see what it looks like I guess. The distributor is a DVDA Bosch 113905205AJ.
I believe the timing should be 7.5btdc right? Do I have to disconnect the vacuum lines when timing it? I don't think so.
(I'm only using the outside nipple on the vacuum canister-correct?
Any help at this point is appreciated! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Think I might be onto something....the starter isn't disengaging...I got it running somewhat but I can hear the starter still dragging or turning over while it is running!!? This is a new starter...gonna pull the starter and try it outside the car. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| '67 Sunroof wrote: |
| Think I might be onto something....the starter isn't disengaging...I got it running somewhat but I can hear the starter still dragging or turning over while it is running!!? This is a new starter...gonna pull the starter and try it outside the car. |
Try the old 16oz universal starting accessory - smack it with a hammer
_________________
The opinion of the author as expressed does not always reflect that of the author nor does he extend any apologies or assume any liability or responsibility for its content or lack thereof or for any lack of humour of the reader of any content at all, anywhere, ever. The reader agrees to all risk by reading it and is advised that any ‘issue’ is theirs alone as they chose to read it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PumaVW79
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2012
Posts: 487
Location: WGS84: 22.9083° S, 43.1964° W
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have you double checked the valve timing?
TDC mark when both valves of cylinder #1 are closed - check gap (.004 in/.10 mm for hot climates and .006 in/.15 mm for cold ones).
Rotor must be pointing to cyl #1 distributor cap connection->#1 spark plug cable
B- Turn the pulley 180 degrees clockwise. Check gaps of valves / rotor position to cyl 4
Repeat the step B with cyl 3 and again with cyl 2.
Position of cylinders is:
Front of the car
3---1
4---2
Back of the car
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67 Sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2014
Posts: 1836
Location: Salisbury, MD
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Got it! I pulled the starter out of the bellhousing and cranked it off of my battery...IT STUCK OUT and wouldn't retract! I got a new starter and hooked it up. I also realized I had the coil wire hooked up to the wrong side of the switch!!!?? So I guess it would ONLY be hot when i PRESSEDmy starter switch. Duhhhhh..
Anyway, it started and runs great!! Strobe timed it and it sounds wonderful!
I occasionally get a backfire out of one of the carbs. I'll hook up my snail and check the sync of both carbs later on. What should they read at idle? I am getting 10 kg/h at idle? Seems high to me.? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yamaducci wrote: |
| They just need to be equal at the proper RPM |
Yamaducci has it right.... No numbers are the same from engine to engine.... But left and right side on your engine should be same...
Generally backfire out carbs indicates lean mixture...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
