Paint now or later?

[thuhreb]

So here is my situation- I have a 1974 super beetle that needs a lot of work. when I acquired it, which is still the way it is now, the fenders are removed along with the hoods. There is no glass installed and all seals are removed. My initial thought was to get everything painted now. I called someone and had another party come out and look at it to give me an estimate. Both estimates are between 4000 and $6000. That is too much for me to spend especially with the amount I will have to spend to get it running, do interior, etc. in its current state, it has an old primer painted on it from a restore by someone else that was never completed. there are some rust spots here and there.

Tell me how stupid this sounds. The paint we will be using can be purchased in both gallon and rattle can on Amazon. We are going with a current color that jeep is putting on their vehicles, anvil. I am considering sanding all the rust and primer off or pay someone to sandblast it then apply the primer myself. How much am I looking at to have someone sandblast it? And how careful do I have to be when I prime? I haven't painted or primed a vehicle before. Basically, I want to get it to a point where I can have someone spray it without doing any prep work to save money. should I do this and if I do, how much would I expect to play for a decent paint job? I am not looking for showroom quality here. Another idea I have is to purchase the paint in a single rattle spray can and spray areas like doorjams etc where I would be able to possibly begin working on putting the interior and other parts I already have back together before it is painted if the cost is going to be too high for me right now. that way, when I do get it painted I will know that everything under the seals Will have a matching coat. Thoughts?

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Decide what you want with a end product. My beetle has been pieced together from a myriad of donors. So I knew it was never going to be showroom. I had a air compressor so I got two part urethane and sprayed it myself. I chose urethane because it is supposed to seal well so hopefully keep the rust at bay. One year now, and no rust bubbles. I did all the sanding and prep work myself it took many months of cutting out rust welding in patches and hiding the scars under bondo. I live in an apartment complex and paint on windless days in a parking lot nearby. I have two not quite adequate air compressors hooked up to a gas generator and that is able to make enough pressure to paint. I also discovered slower activator, what a boon to the amateur as I can take my time and spray sections without the overlap showing too badly. One Gallon was not quite enough, I see shades of grey primer showing through the orange. So I have another gallon, I have sanded with 800 grit and will await another warm windless day to give it another coat.

Tons easier to paint with everything apart so you don't have to worry about masking and overspray.

[Mike Fisher]

I would use base coat & clear coat if you want it to look good now & in the future.
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Air-Cooled Head]

Let me warn everyone, I may come across as an a**hat, but that is not my intention.

I read your post several times, and tried a couple of different answers, that I tossed. Because I couldn't answer your questions without some discussion. So here it is:
I don’t think your idea is stupid. Somewhat misguided and ambitious, but not stupid. I know this because, as they say, “Been there, done that.”

You have a disassembled car that “needs a lot of work”, including some body work,“there are some rust spots here and there”.
The car has old primer on it, and you considered painting everything now, but it’s too expensive.
You’re considering having someone sandblast it, then you’d primer it.
You “ want to get it to a point where I can have someone spray it without doing any prep work to save money.”
Lastly, you have no experience. “I haven't painted or primed a vehicle before.”

It sounds to me like you have a total, floor up, (almost) body off restoration on your hands. Bluntly, this is no job for a rookie. I’m not trying to discourage you, I’m being realistic.
You speak of “ the amount I will have to spend to get it running, do interior, etc.”. That, in and of itself is a major time and expense commitment. If you already have the time, tools and space to do just that (get it running, do interior, etc) it’s probably gonna cost at least $2K, and that’s with you doing the labor. Hopefully, you won’t have to buy any tools, or pay someone to do something.

If you’ll read more posts in this forum, you’ll discover that bodywork/paint is a mixture of art, science, and magic. (OK, not magic, skill. ) And it takes more than a little practice to start to “get it”, let alone master it.
The fact that you “haven't painted or primed a vehicle before” says that you don’t have the necessary tools. Believe me, that is a MAJOR cash outlay. A good compressor for painting will (conservatively) cost $600+. Even a “not quite adequate” one will be more than half that.
Paint guns can cost anywhere from a couple of ten to a couple of hundred dollar bills, or more. The paint gun & compressor can be eliminated by lots and lots of cans of rattle-can primer. Not recommended, but it will save a few $$$.

Now, can a rookie get a car “to a point where I can have someone spray it without doing any prep work to save money.”? I’m gonna say, in most cases, no. Not unless you plan to take it where quantity of paint jobs delivered matters more than quality of paint job delivered. (I won’t mention any large auto paint chain by name.) Someone more experienced could do it. I have done it. Can a rookie do it? Doubtful.

As for the sandblast/prime yourself idea. Unless you plan on picking the shell up the moment the blaster is done, and rushing it into the booth for primer, this is a bad idea. The body will start to rust on your way home. A better idea would be a blast/primer package (If the blaster can provide it), where the car is returned to you already primered. Note, this is a stop rust, not ready for top coat prime job. I haven’t had a car blasted in years, so I don’t know how much it should cost.

Honestly, I started in the same spot as you, and I admire your ambition. I had a project that I had sandblasted, but not primered right away. Due to rust, I eventually had it blasted again, and primered. (I paid about $1000, but the blaster was a friends brother) While I worked on the mechanicals (something I was familiar with and prepared for), I bought a welder and taught myself how to weld. Long story shortened, that project got abandoned ‘cause it was taking too long 'cause I was in over my head.

In the 20 or so years since then, I spent a ton of money buying supplies and learning how to do hammer & dolly work, how to mix and apply and sand filler. And eventually, how to paint, how not to paint, how to mix paint, how to fix, then how to prevent paint runs, and leave us not forget the tedious tasks of proper masking, & paint gun cleaning. (A painter “let” me clean his shop & be his “go-fer” for free in exchange for those 2 skills.) Have I mentioned orange peel & color sanding?

At this point, I consider myself an experienced novice; only a step or so beyond rookie. I wouldn’t take on a project such as yours. Not because it’s over my head, but because I’d only want to do half: Either the mechanical stuff on the pan, or the bodywork/paint. Not both, and certainly not the electrical. Not because I couldn't; just don’t love it enough anymore. And believe me, you’re talking a long labor of love.

Like I said, I don’t want to discourage you, but rather, give you a realistic picture of what you’re looking at. If any of the more experienced disagree with the above, please feel free to enlighten both of us.

Meanwhile, read thru the stickies, above. Lots of great info to absorb. And I wish you luck with your project, whatever you do.
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Everything known to man has been written.
Readers are Leaders!

[beetlenut]

Having just done about 80% of a body off restoration myself, I agree with everything Air-Cooled Head said above. You're only fooling yourself if you don't have enough skills, money and conviction to see the job to the end, and to do that takes some planning.

You said, "I want to get it to a point where I can have someone spray it without doing any prep work to save money." Thing is, NO reputable painter is going to paint a car in which he doesn't know the level of prep work that's gone in to it. It's his reputation on the line when the paint doesn't come out right, or falls off 6 months down the line due to improper prep. A lot of paint manufactures have a system of primers, sealers, and top coats made to work together. So if you do manage to find someone who will take on your prepped job, consider the above, and ask yourself why they would risk doing it?
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scrapyards are for quitters
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[Mike Fisher]

He said he can't afford the $4000-$6000 he was quoted, so he's probably gonna have to do it himself for $2000. Air compressor,paint gun,sander,spot sand blaster etc one tool,supply at a time.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[Air-Cooled Head]

[andk5591]

Agreeing with everything said so far...and adding my 2 cents.

A big place you save money is having the car completely blown apart so a body shop doesnt have to mask or deal with misc stuff. I just talked to a shop I have used before about shooting a 66 and I will have about $3K in some final body and a very nice paint job. BUT, I will deliver a totally bare shell with fenders, doors, etc stripped and removed.

Any good painter will either refuse to shoot a car that was prepped and primed by someone else OR will have you sign a waiver releasing them from an responsibility of the quality of the job. Way too many horror stories.

BUT let me throw something out that will buy you some time and give you a car that looks half decent for a couple years until you save the money to do it right. Look into Eastwood Plastiwrap http://www.eastwood.com/paints/elastiwrap-coatings.html You can get everything you need for about $300. Find the current issue of Car Craft. They shot a Mustang and it looks OK.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[thuhreb]

Thanks to everyone so far. A lot of great input. Sounds like i might need to start selling some of my guitars....

[andk5591]