drums on IRS?

I Ride Sand · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject: drums on IRS?

So, I guess I am really bad at using the search function.... I have a set of drums on my swingaxle trans that are wide 5 pattern, and was wondering, can be used on the IRS setup I have now? Will it work somehow or is a new set of drums needed?

Brian · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure.

But I know that the other easy way to get wide 5 rears is to have thing drums.
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DuaneL · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject:

as I recall the snout on a irs drum is 0.55 inches longer than a swing so the axle nut will not tighten against the drum (it was probably a bad idea but I was young and dumb at the time and once used washers to make a similar swap work not sure how long it might have lasted, I traded in the car shortly afterward)
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Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:09 pm Post subject:

There are a couple ways to go about it. Easy way is to use '58 - '67 backing plates and hardware with wide 5 drums and a spacer between the drum and axle nut. If you do this you still have the narrower early shoes which wear faster than the wider later shoes.

The other way is to use '68 and newer backing plates and hardware and use spacers to set the wide five drum so that the shoes completely contact the drum lining. This will need a spacer between the drum and axle nut and possibly between the drum and bearing spacer. Depending on the drum, some people also have to turn the inside face of the drum back a hair so that the shoes fit.

At the end of the day, the weak link will still be the drums. When you beat on them, especially with wider wheels/offset, they have a tendency to crack starting from the oil slinger hole in the face. That is why I went with thing drums. They bolt straight up to '68 and newer backing plates and hardware, have the long splines which are stronger than the earlier short splines, and the drum is physically much stronger than the early wide fives.
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I Ride Sand · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject:

BUGGUTZ · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject:

I ran 66 wide 5's on 72 backing plates and wider shoes. Cut the outer nose if the drum about 7/16". They fit and worked. I believe I ground the steel back on the shoes a tad to not cut the drum. Long time ago but thats how I remember it.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:56 pm Post subject:

Why cut the nose of the drum back farther? The wide fives were already shorter than the four lug drums to start with. Cutting them back would require and even larger spacer and would further reduce the load bearing surface area of the splines...which was already a good deal less than the 4 lugs to begin with. Confused

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Bashr52 · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:01 am Post subject:

The Thing had wide 5 rims on an IRS rear and balljoint front end, why not source Thing drums?

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:20 am Post subject:

That is what I did. evwparts.com has a great deal on Thing drums. High quality German drums made by Sebro. In my opinion, they are actually a bit beefier than the original VW Thing drums. They have thicker webbing and the webbing on the face has been offset by 18 degrees to provide more support to the bolt holes. Currently listed at $105 per drum. That is a very fair price for a quality Thing drum, and actually cheaper than when I ordered mine a couple years back. Hard to go wrong with that. Win-win!

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I Ride Sand · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject:

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject:

That is totally acceptable.
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BUGGUTZ · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject:

My drums had a long nose on them. Fresh off the 66 sedan. The 72 was a super, maybe that had to do with it? I had a couple buddies then that told me how to do it. Cut the drum, used a washer and the castle nut set right where it needed to be. It was a decade ago or more. I may have put a spacer behind the drum to set the shoes in the right spot. I have disc now and looing back........hit the swap meet and go to disc.

BUGGUTZ · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject:

Ok I got it. I cut the drum and used a bearing spacer from the swing axle to make the difference. Otherwise a smidge of the axle spline sticks past the drum.

mkparker · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:42 pm Post subject:

This - http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-22-5281-7

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Vanapplebomb · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:23 pm Post subject:

Those work well, but any hardened spacers will work. A buddy of mine uses two or three Grade 8 flat washers between the drum and axle nut. Been that way for years, and drives the piss out of it. Axle nut is still tight as a drum (no pun intended).
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BUGGUTZ · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject:

Washers work. I didnt like them because I couldnt get the exact fit to match the drum and snugly fit the stub. It looked ghetto so I did the spacer deal. Smooth factory look.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject:

Hahaha, it does look ghetto, especially since they are yellow zinc plated. Sticks out like a sore thumb on black drums/wheels. Laughing

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BUGGUTZ · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject:

I ended up spinning a few drums. Tore the splines right out of them. Ya do what ya gotta do but always safety first.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:58 am Post subject:

I can see that happening with the reduced shear area of the splines from shortening the drums. '67 and older drums had a hard enough time as it was. Shortening them even more coupled with the less than average material some were/are made with...add a little power, and boom! No more splines.
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Dale M. · Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:38 am Post subject:

If you want to keep from spinning splines out of drums.... TORQUE THEM to 237ft-lbs...

Dale
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